Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution

[James Baxter <jebaxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 11:15:47 -0500
> From: teucer@xxxxxxxxx
> To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution
> 
> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 5:50 AM, James Baxter <jebaxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:22:35 -0500
> >> From: teucer@xxxxxxxxx
> >> To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Geoffrey Spear <wooble@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Which of the historical rulesets the die roll corresponds to is,
> >> > conveniently, not the problem of the person resolving this decision.
> >>
> >> How I think we do this:
> >>
> >> 1E rulesets are allegedly all reconstructible, but I don't have access
> >> to the tools that would do said reconstructing.
> >
> > Start with archive.org's past versions of the rules and apply the changes from the mailing list archive. It's an overcomplicated way of doing things but since 1E was less platonic then the decisions taken in 1E should be verified platonically.
> 
> Yes, but Wooble has the database to make this cumbersome approach unnecessary.


What database is this? Is it accessible to all the players and could you provide a link to it?

> 
> >> 2E rulesets, I have absolutely no idea where to get. If nobody has any
> >> particular thoughts on this matter, we could all agree that they are
> >> inaccessible; I'm against skipping that era if we can get at it, but
> >> if we can't, we may have no choice.
> >
> > Work through from 1E. Again, this is complicated but in particular we should attempt to justify the jump from 1E to 2E.
> 
> No, 2E started with a complete ruleset rewrite. If you can find the
> message with its initial rules, I'd love to see them.
> 
> (As for justifying the jump - the 1E rules were completely lost in the
> server crash. They had to start with something.)

Assuming 2E is the ruleset change that started with the server crash on 4th April 2005 (announced here: http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200504/msg00001.html) then the latest version of the RP that passed is here: http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200504/msg00020.html. It is interesting to note that they appear to have gone through an emergency properly using what they could remember rather than just arbitrarily saying the rules changed (which seems to be what some of the discussion on here was suggesting).

> 
> >> 3E rulesets are easy enough - that's when the wiki starts tracking them.
> >
> > Not all 3E rulesets are valid due to the comment bug. The initial one is, the one at the end of nweek 112 is and the changes to the
> > ruleset after any emergency are. All other 3E rulesets can't exist due to the comment bug preventing the nweek from increasing (and
> > thus stopping voting).
> 
> I had forgotten it showed up that early.
> 
> >> 4E and 5E rulesets are not part of current B Nomic history, since they
> >> were platonically never the rules. Exceptions: the initial rules of
> >> those two eras, which were adopted but forbade gameplay.
> >
> > The 4E initial ruleset worked as it came from an emergency, as did any changes applied in any emergencies in 4E up until P266
> > allegedly passed (it didn't really pass because the comment bug platonically prevented voting on it). Since 5E was started by a post-
> > P266 emergency, the 5E initial ruleset is not part of the game since the emergency can't have happened (no-one hit their panic buttons
> > after P266).
> 
> That's a good point.
> 
> ...wait, did the 6E emergency involve any panic buttons?
> 
> My recollection is that we all sort of did everything because we
> weren't sure what the comment bug required of us, but hm.

The bug was announced but was ignored as the greedy interpretation was thought stupid. Then the greedy approach was shown to be wrong. Then there was a time where some people tried to resurrect A Nomic. Then people started trying to activate all kinds of emergencies but no-one was sure what rule we were using. Then I explained the situation and it became clear we were using a panic button emergency system (http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200902/msg00258.html).

> 
> >> 6E rulesets are also on the wiki.
> >
> >
> > 6E rulesets are fairly easy to find, we would have to take into account all the rulesets since the end of 5E though.
> 
> Everything after the end of 5E is by definition 6E.

I've really always thought there aren't enough recorded eras after 5E. I think it should be broken down like this:
6E (Second 4th Era) - Reset to 4th Era rules after the end of 5th Era
7E (Bgoran Era) - Copying Agora's ruleset
8E (Cenobiarchic Era) - Wooble becomes cenobiarch and the rules start turning back towards more B-like rules
9E (Revival Era) - This era that started when we got bored with the mixed B and Agora ruleset.

> 
> > The other option is compsciguy's proposal to go back to 5E, which would not require working out rulesets (it would need people to agree
> > to start an emergency though).
> 
> Too late, as this one's been resolved. We don't know what the
> emergency procedure is, and I'm waiting to hear Wooble's argument for
> why it is the one used in late 1E, but we're clearly in an emergency
> situation that's just waiting for recognition. I encourage everybody
> to recognize an emergency, consent to an emergency, recognize a state
> of emergency, and hit their panic button, so we can resolve on
> absolute certainty about when we are.


I'll send a message to s-b after this one (I think s-b is experiencing less problems than s-d). I would support a return to 5th era in the new emergency. If it hadn't been for the comment bug we would have continued with 5th era.

 		 	   		  
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