Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution

[Gabriel Vistica <gvistica@xxxxxxxxx>]

I have another version of my RP ready to be submitted, assuming that we actually 
get enough people to recognize an Emergency.
The comment bug is fixed (assuming that the previous Ruleset didn't have the bug 
too) and I had adjusted the game history rule so that Era 7 began. Want me to 
edit it before the Emergency starts (and should I add eras 8,9,10 or remove eras 
6,7)?




----- Original Message ----
> From: James Baxter <jebaxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Tue, December 28, 2010 9:43:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution
> 
> 
> > Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 11:15:47 -0500
> > From: teucer@xxxxxxxxx
> > To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> >  Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 27,  2010 at 5:50 AM, James Baxter <jebaxter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  
>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:22:35  -0500
> > >> From: teucer@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> >  >> Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Emergency Resolution
> > >>
> >  >> On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Geoffrey Spear <wooble@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
>wrote:
> >  >> >
> > >> > Which of the historical rulesets the die  roll corresponds to is,
> > >> > conveniently, not the problem of  the person resolving this decision.
> > >>
> > >> How I  think we do this:
> > >>
> > >> 1E rulesets are allegedly  all reconstructible, but I don't have access
> > >> to the tools that  would do said reconstructing.
> > >
> > > Start with archive.org's past versions of the  rules and apply the changes 
>from the mailing list archive. It's an  overcomplicated way of doing things but 
>since 1E was less platonic then the  decisions taken in 1E should be verified 
>platonically.
> > 
> > Yes, but  Wooble has the database to make this cumbersome approach  
>unnecessary.
> 
> 
> What database is this? Is it accessible to all the  players and could you 
>provide a link to it?
> 
> > 
> > >> 2E  rulesets, I have absolutely no idea where to get. If nobody has any
> >  >> particular thoughts on this matter, we could all agree that they  are
> > >> inaccessible; I'm against skipping that era if we can get  at it, but
> > >> if we can't, we may have no choice.
> >  >
> > > Work through from 1E. Again, this is complicated but in  particular we 
>should attempt to justify the jump from 1E to 2E.
> > 
> >  No, 2E started with a complete ruleset rewrite. If you can find the
> >  message with its initial rules, I'd love to see them.
> > 
> > (As for  justifying the jump - the 1E rules were completely lost in the
> > server  crash. They had to start with something.)
> 
> Assuming 2E is the ruleset  change that started with the server crash on 4th 
>April 2005 (announced here:  
>http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200504/msg00001.html)
>  then the latest version of the RP that passed is here:  
>http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200504/msg00020.html.
>  It is interesting to note that they appear to have gone through an emergency  
>properly using what they could remember rather than just arbitrarily saying the  
>rules changed (which seems to be what some of the discussion on here was  
>suggesting).
> 
> > 
> > >> 3E rulesets are easy enough - that's  when the wiki starts tracking them.
> > >
> > > Not all 3E  rulesets are valid due to the comment bug. The initial one is, 
>the one at the  end of nweek 112 is and the changes to the
> > > ruleset after any  emergency are. All other 3E rulesets can't exist due to 
>the comment bug  preventing the nweek from increasing (and
> > > thus stopping  voting).
> > 
> > I had forgotten it showed up that early.
> > 
> > >> 4E and 5E rulesets are not part of current B Nomic history,  since they
> > >> were platonically never the rules. Exceptions: the  initial rules of
> > >> those two eras, which were adopted but forbade  gameplay.
> > >
> > > The 4E initial ruleset worked as it came  from an emergency, as did any 
>changes applied in any emergencies in 4E up until  P266
> > > allegedly passed (it didn't really pass because the comment  bug 
>platonically prevented voting on it). Since 5E was started by a  post-
> > > P266 emergency, the 5E initial ruleset is not part of the  game since the 
>emergency can't have happened (no-one hit their panic  buttons
> > > after P266).
> > 
> > That's a good point.
> > 
> > ...wait, did the 6E emergency involve any panic buttons?
> > 
> > My recollection is that we all sort of did everything because  we
> > weren't sure what the comment bug required of us, but hm.
> 
> The  bug was announced but was ignored as the greedy interpretation was thought  
>stupid. Then the greedy approach was shown to be wrong. Then there was a time  
>where some people tried to resurrect A Nomic. Then people started trying to  
>activate all kinds of emergencies but no-one was sure what rule we were using.  
>Then I explained the situation and it became clear we were using a panic button  
>emergency system  
>(http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-business/spoon-business-200902/msg00258.html).
>
> 
> > 
> > >> 6E rulesets are also on the wiki.
> > >
> >  >
> > > 6E rulesets are fairly easy to find, we would have to take  into account 
>all the rulesets since the end of 5E though.
> > 
> >  Everything after the end of 5E is by definition 6E.
> 
> I've really always  thought there aren't enough recorded eras after 5E. I think 
>it should be broken  down like this:
> 6E (Second 4th Era) - Reset to 4th Era rules after the end of  5th Era
> 7E (Bgoran Era) - Copying Agora's ruleset
> 8E (Cenobiarchic Era) -  Wooble becomes cenobiarch and the rules start turning 
>back towards more B-like  rules
> 9E (Revival Era) - This era that started when we got bored with the  mixed B 
>and Agora ruleset.
> 
> > 
> > > The other option is  compsciguy's proposal to go back to 5E, which would 
>not require working out  rulesets (it would need people to agree
> > > to start an emergency  though).
> > 
> > Too late, as this one's been resolved. We don't know  what the
> > emergency procedure is, and I'm waiting to hear Wooble's  argument for
> > why it is the one used in late 1E, but we're clearly in an  emergency
> > situation that's just waiting for recognition. I encourage  everybody
> > to recognize an emergency, consent to an emergency, recognize  a state
> > of emergency, and hit their panic button, so we can resolve  on
> > absolute certainty about when we are.
> 
> 
> I'll send a message  to s-b after this one (I think s-b is experiencing less 
>problems than s-d). I  would support a return to 5th era in the new emergency. 
>If it hadn't been for  the comment bug we would have continued with 5th era.
> 
>                              
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