Re: [s-d] Re: [auto] Antonio votes

[Daniel Lepage <dpl33@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Jan 25, 2006, at 6:50 PM, Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:

> Antonio Dolcetta <zagarna@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
> > it's not very clear if the pens in the pen pack are held by you or by
> > the pen pack or by both (but then you're holding the pen pack that
> > holds the pens and it gets terribly confusing and my brain goes on a
> > loop)
>
> Well, as I stated sometime earlier this nweek (I think Triller brought
> up the same confusion), I was assuming the holding an object wasn't
> transitive, as there was nothing in the rules saying that it was. If
> that's the case though, then the Torch doesn't work right, since it
> describes the room that the Torch is in, not the room that the object
> holding the torch is in.
>
> We probably ought to settle this soon somehow.

Perhaps a distinction between "held by" and "in" is in order. The  
Torch is "in" the room, even though it isn't "held by" the room.  
Likewise, a coin in a bag in a large chest on the other side of a rip  
in spacetime that I carry in a locket around my neck is "in" my  
possession, even though to actually "hold" it I'd need to open the  
locket, reach through the rip to the chest, get out the bag, and  
remove the coin.

OTOH, the behavior may depend on the containers as well - a lit torch  
in my hand lights the room much better than a lit torch in the pocket  
dimension I keep in my wallet. Unless I have a transparent wallet and  
I'm holding it over my head.

I think in most MUDs (and our game is very much like a MUD at the  
moment) objects affect the whole room if they're in the room or in  
the possession of an object in the room, but at deeper levels their  
effects are masked unless the code for the objects specifically does  
otherwise.

Incidentally, the lighting effects problem could also be solved MUD- 
style. In most MUDs I've seen, each room has an integer representing  
how well lit it is. Torches, sunlight, and electric lights add to  
this integer, while clouds of ink, dark auras, and radiation  
dampeners subtract from it. In general, a player can see in any room  
with positive lighting, but the numbers allow for other interesting  
effects too - perhaps vampires can see in anything above -10 and  
actually start dying if exposed to more than +4, for example.

> > is it actually stated somewhere that objects can be held only by one
> > object at a time ?
>
> No. In fact, for some objects, such as ministries, the object *is*
> held by more than one object at a time.

It also might be worth distinguishing between physical objects and  
conceptual objects - a Ministry doesn't really have any location in  
the House, nor can it be given away, dropped, or otherwise physically  
manipulated. I would further contend that this is as it should be; if  
we want Ministries to have physical locations, then instead we should  
create physical objects such as badges representing them, and give  
every Minister a badge. The badge can be dropped or given away,  
perhaps, but the actual Ministry is really a static effect of holding  
the badge, not an object by itself.

Or we could make them rooms. That would also be interesting.

Anyway, the above are just some thoughts I had while reading the  
hundred or two messages that accumulated while I was out of the  
country. I'll probably be able to resume playing normally in a few  
more days. Homework permitting, of course.

--
Wonko

This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher  
must learn not to be frightened by absurdities.
     -Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

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