Re: [s-d] [s-b] Proposal: MathFlag

["Jamie Dallaire" <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hmmm, I think that's a good idea, actually. Every man for himself, and you
can target your inputs to whichever player you want. people get knocked out
when they're figured out. And perhaps no investigating or challenging of
players for a couple rdays right after they successfully find someone else
out.

Yeah, I think I'll rework and integrate that.

BP

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Tyler <wisety@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Oh, I have a suggestion. Maybe you could work out how to implement it if
> you
> like it:
>
> Let the teams be instead 1-player teams. I don't like much how only one
> person's expression and one person's challenge is used on each team. Why
> not
> allow one expression and one guess per person? It's more work for the GM,
> of
> course. I don't really know what the victory conditions should be, then.
> Maybe you have to be among the last to be figured out? Maybe to be the
> first
> to figure out the most?
>
> And I hope people will come up with reasonably easy expressions, to make it
> fun, without having to set all sorts of limits on what they can use. I
> suggest multiple iterations of this game so we can move along a learning
> curve.  That is, if the game doesn't flop the first time.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Phil Ulrich <phil.ulrich@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > I think I was operating under the assumption he would.
> >
> > Tyler wrote:
> > > Only if ehird vacates it between weeks and thus forfeits his m1 reward
> > for
> > > the next week. Of course, if he does that I'll take it back probably.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Phil Ulrich <phil.ulrich@xxxxxxxxx>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> It would at the beginning of the next nweek, when it would go from
> p*x=x
> > >> to p*x=100x.
> > >>
> > >> Tyler wrote:
> > >>> What if I made p=the MoM's reward value? p*x would never be figured
> > out!
> > >> (It
> > >>> would always be p*x=x.)
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Jamie Dallaire <
> > bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I'm not sure what you're asking. I HAVE been thinking that I should
> > >> rework
> > >>>> this proposal and make it clearer because it is currently almost
> just
> > a
> > >>>> stream-of-consciousness and as such probably quite unclear.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Here is what I mean with the "p": The idea is that my team could
> pick
> > a
> > >>>> secret expression that looks, for example, like this:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 32*x/(7*p+4)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> specifying that p represents, hmm, I don't know, Ty-Guy6's mackerel.
> > Or
> > >> any
> > >>>> other attribute value within B that can only be a finite number.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The opposing team, trying to figure out how to predict our numbers,
> > >> doesn't
> > >>>> know what p represents. The Gamemaster, however, does. So if the
> > >> opposing
> > >>>> team were to submit an input of x = 4, then the Gamemaster would use
> x
> > =
> > >> 4
> > >>>> and look up the current value of p (right now: 425) to compute (when
> > he
> > >>>> gets
> > >>>> around to computing) the result of the expression:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 32 * 4 / (7 * 425 + 4) = 128 / 2979 =
> > >> 0.042967438737831487076200067136623
> > >>>> (hmm, I really should specify some guideline for reporting a certain
> > >> number
> > >>>> of decimals... and maybe restrict expressions to even shorter
> > lengths...
> > >>>> otherwise this looks HARD!)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> BP
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Tyler <wisety@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hey, I like the sound of it, but I don't fully understand the 'p'
> > >> thing.
> > >>>> It
> > >>>>> sounds like you are saying, you only can do this, this, this, and,
> oh
> > >>>> yeah,
> > >>>>> anything else. How is someone supposed to guess what that p is?
> > >> Couldn't
> > >>>>> you
> > >>>>> make p change x to a specified constant every time?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Jamie Dallaire <
> > >>>> bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Here's an attempt at a subgame. There are still several ndays
> before
> > >>>>>> voting,
> > >>>>>> so please do suggest improvements to the subgame as I'm not sure
> > where
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>> set the limits myself. E.G. should the list of operators include
> > >> simple
> > >>>>>> logical ones like IF statements? That might get to be too
> > ridiculously
> > >>>>>> difficult. E.G. how many characters sets a reasonable limit for
> each
> > >>>>> team's
> > >>>>>> secret expression?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Also, I'm not following the usual language of attributes and
> > whatnot.
> > >> I
> > >>>>>> don't think this needs to be so within a subgame as long as it is
> > >>>>>> internally
> > >>>>>> consistent, right? Everyone ok with this?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I submit the following Proposal, entitled "MathFlag":
> > >>>>>> {
> > >>>>>> Create a Subgame named "MathFlag", described by the Game Document
> > that
> > >>>>>> reads
> > >>>>>> as follows:
> > >>>>>> {{
> > >>>>>> "MathFlag" is a team-based Subgame, described by this Game
> Document.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This Subgame, when it is Open, is always in one and only one of
> four
> > >>>>>> Stages:
> > >>>>>> Preliminary, Selection, Active, or Challenge.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When this Subgame becomes Open, it is in the Preliminary Stage.
> > During
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> Preliminary Stage, Players (save for the Gamemaster) may join
> > MathFlag
> > >>>> by
> > >>>>>> announcement to the Public Forum. The Gamemaster may cause the
> > Subgame
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>> move to the Selection Stage at a time of his choosing, provided at
> > >>>> least
> > >>>>> 2
> > >>>>>> rdays have elapsed since the Preliminary Stage began, by
> announcing
> > >> the
> > >>>>>> makeup of the two opposing teams to the Public Forum. These teams
> > must
> > >>>>>> collectively include every Player who has joined MathFlag (and
> only
> > >>>> those
> > >>>>>> Players), and these Players must be distributed randomly and as
> > evenly
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>>> possible between the two teams.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> During the Selection stage, any Player may privately submit a
> > Proposed
> > >>>>>> Secret Expression to the Gamemaster. The Gamemaster may cause the
> > >>>> Subgame
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>> move to the Active Stage by announcement to the Public Forum at a
> > time
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> his choosing, provided at least 2 rdays have elapsed since the
> > >>>> Selection
> > >>>>>> Stage began and at least one member of each team has submitted a
> > valid
> > >>>>>> Proposed Secret Expression. When the Active Stage begins, the last
> > >>>> valid
> > >>>>>> Proposed Secret Expression submitted by any member of each team
> > >> becomes
> > >>>>>> that
> > >>>>>> team's Secret Expression. The Secret Expression may never be
> > changed.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> A Proposed Secret Expression is valid if it fulfills the following
> > >>>>>> requirements:
> > >>>>>> - It includes no spaces.
> > >>>>>> - It consists of a maximum of 16 characters.
> > >>>>>> - It contains only characters from the following set: {- + / * ( )
> 0
> > 1
> > >>>> 2
> > >>>>> 3
> > >>>>>> 4
> > >>>>>> 5 6 7 8 9 x p}
> > >>>>>> - If it contains the character "p", it is accompanied by an
> > >> explanation
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>> which specific Attribute's Value this character represents. The
> > Range
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> this Attribute must only include finite numbers.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> During the Active stage, any Player may submit (to the Public
> Forum)
> > >> an
> > >>>>>> Input, which must be a single integer. The Gamemaster may, by
> > >>>>> announcement
> > >>>>>> to the Public Forum, Compute at any given time, provided that at
> > least
> > >>>> 1
> > >>>>>> rday has elapsed since he last Computed and since the MathFlag
> last
> > >>>>> entered
> > >>>>>> the Active Stage. The Gamemaster is obliged to Compute within 2
> > rdays
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> receiving Inputs from members of both teams. When the Gamemaster
> > >>>>> Computes,
> > >>>>>> he evaluates the Result of each team's Secret Expression using the
> > >> last
> > >>>>>> Input submitted by a member of the opposing team, as well as the
> > >>>> current
> > >>>>>> Value of the Attribute represented by the character "p" for each
> > team
> > >>>> (if
> > >>>>>> relevant). The Gamemaster, when he Computes, must announce both
> the
> > >>>> Input
> > >>>>>> used and the Result of each team's Secret Expression to the Public
> > >>>> Forum.
> > >>>>>> During Computation, the Gamemaster must abide by the following
> > >>>>> guidelines:
> > >>>>>> - "-" represents subtraction, "+" represents addition, "*"
> > represents
> > >>>>>> multiplication, and "/" represents division.
> > >>>>>> - mathematical order of operations must be followed, considering
> all
> > >>>>> above
> > >>>>>> operations and brackets.
> > >>>>>> - "x" is to be replaced by the last Input submitted by a member of
> > the
> > >>>>>> opposing team.
> > >>>>>> - "p" is to be replaced by the current Value of the Attribute
> > >> specified
> > >>>>> by
> > >>>>>> the team having submitted the Secret Expression being evaluated.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> At any time during the Active Stage, any Player on either team may
> > >>>> cause
> > >>>>>> MathFlag to move to the Challenge Stage by announcement to the
> > Public
> > >>>>>> Forum.
> > >>>>>> When this occurs, the Gamemaster must randomly compose a list of 3
> > >>>>> integers
> > >>>>>> within the range [-1000,1000] and submit these to the Public
> Forum.
> > >>>> These
> > >>>>>> integers are known as Queries. Any Player from each team may
> submit,
> > >> to
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> Public Forum, a Guess that corresponds to each Query. At a time of
> > his
> > >>>>>> choosing, provided at least 2 rdays have passed since the
> Challenge
> > >>>> Stage
> > >>>>>> was last entered, OR each Query has been met with a Guess from
> each
> > >>>> team,
> > >>>>>> the Gamemaster may Compare the results.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When he Compares, the Gamemaster evaluates the result of each
> team's
> > >>>>> Secret
> > >>>>>> Expression (exactly as when he Computes) using each individual
> Query
> > >> as
> > >>>>> an
> > >>>>>> Input. He then compares this result to the Guess submitted by the
> > >>>>> opposing
> > >>>>>> team from the corresponding Query, the difference being known as
> the
> > >>>>> Error
> > >>>>>> for each individual Guess.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If the sum of the three Errors for the team that caused the
> > Challenge
> > >>>>> Stage
> > >>>>>> to begin is zero, all the Players on this team are Winners. The
> > >>>> opposing
> > >>>>>> team's Players are Losers.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If this is not the case, but the sum of the three Errors for the
> > other
> > >>>>> team
> > >>>>>> is zero, the Players on the other team are Winners, and the
> Players
> > on
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> team that caused the Challenge Stage to begin are Losers.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If neither team has a cumulative Error of zero, MathFlag re-enters
> > the
> > >>>>>> Active Stage. If the cumulative Error of the team that last caused
> > the
> > >>>>>> Challenge Stage to begin is greater than that of the opposing
> team,
> > no
> > >>>>>> Player from the former team may submit an Input until the
> Gamemaster
> > >>>> has
> > >>>>>> Computed once more.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If, at any time, the Attribute with a Value represented by "p" in
> a
> > >>>>> team's
> > >>>>>> Secret Expression ceases to be an Attribute, or if its Range
> ceases
> > to
> > >>>>>> include only finite numbers, this team's Players are Losers.
> Unless
> > >>>> they
> > >>>>>> simultaneously become Losers, the opposing team's Players are
> > Winners.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Whenever Winners and/or Losers are declared, MathFlag ends.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> When MathFlag ends, all Winners are awarded a Solar-Powered Pocket
> > >>>>>> Calculator as a Trophy.
> > >>>>>> }}
> > >>>>>> }
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Billy Pilgrim
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> spoon-business mailing list
> > >>>>>> spoon-business@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>>> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-business
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>>  -Tyler
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> spoon-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>>> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> spoon-discuss mailing list
> > >>>> spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> spoon-discuss mailing list
> > >> spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > >> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > spoon-discuss mailing list
> > spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
> >
>
>
>
> --
>  -Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> spoon-discuss mailing list
> spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
spoon-discuss mailing list
spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss