Orc In A Spacesuit on 25 Apr 2003 05:34:01 -0000

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Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Uh... Crap...

From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On 4/24/03 at 9:00 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote:
Here's how I'm claiming I'm winning:
*Societies can modify their charters.
*I have a society that does what I say it does.

Says who? The charter? What happened to "charter don't themselves have the power to do anything"?

That's right, the charter's themselves don't. But societies do have the power to do things, and exactly what it does is explained by the charter. I thought this was obvious, and I'll even use the same quote you did later in this email: "A society does not take actions unless its charter or a rule dictates it does."

*My society modifies its charter to make me omnipotent, but at this point this is a do-nothing as it is not a rule.
*My society modifies its charter to be a rule.

R11 disallows this, especially when taken with r18.

I have seperatly proved this to be nonsense. R11 says rulechanges only happen as prescribed in the ruleset; any rule that is part of the ruleset that prescribes a change to a rule, whether or not it's calling it a "rule", or "reviseable object" if that reviseable object is also a rule, or "charter" if that charter is also a rule. And I've gone through the R18 bit quite thouroghly with Wonko. I'm pretty sure I'm right on the R18 part, but if not, still have a backup plan, as I've demonstrated.

*Now that the charter both makes me omnipotent and is a rule, I am
*With my omnipotency, I close the loophole and get myself a win.

Wonko's takeover failed (pending his statement otherwise) because he
didn't have any way to modify a charter; I did.
Glotmorf's takeover failed because he tried to get a charter to do
something, when charter don't themselves have the power to do anything.
He could have set it up so that his charter did have that power, and set it up to where he could control that power, but he didn't.

No, I didn't try to get a charter to do something. R578: "A society does not take actions unless its charter or a rule dictates it does." M-Tek's charter: "M-Tek takes an Action upon the Prez stating it does."

Yes, M-Tek does that. But this isn't where you try to get the charter to do something.

The Prez of M-Tek, which, according to the roster, is me, said M-Tek changes its charter to have 100 charm.

Fine and dandy.  Your charter now has 100 charm.

The Prez of M-Tek (which, last time I checked, was still me) then changed M-Tek's charter to say that M-Tek distributes its charter's charm to M-Tek members if said charm is above a certain amount.

No, the Prez of M-Tek change the charter to have "If this charter ever possesses charm, it evenly distributes it among M-Tek's members." Meaning the charter does the distribution. Which isn't possible for your standard charter.

In any case, if you _had_ changed the charter to say that M-Tek distributes its charter's charm, that isn't legal. Societies may only distribute their own charm not the charm of anything else. Not their charter, not a gremlin, not another player. Only their own charm. Therefore, M-Tek's charter has 100 charm, but neither M-Tek's charter nor M-Tek itself can give that charm to anyone.

Orc in a Spacesuit

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