Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Uh... Crap...

["Orc In A Spacesuit" <orcinaspacesuit@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> On 4/24/03 at 9:00 PM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote:
> > Here's how I'm claiming I'm winning:
> > *Societies can modify their charters.
> > *I have a society that does what I say it does.
>
> Says who?  The charter?  What happened to "charter don't themselves have 
> the power to do anything"?

That's right, the charter's themselves don't.  But societies do have the 
power to do things, and exactly what it does is explained by the charter.  I 
thought this was obvious, and I'll even use the same quote you did later in 
this email: "A society does not take actions unless its charter or a rule 
dictates it does."

> > *My society modifies its charter to make me omnipotent, but at this point 
> > this is a do-nothing as it is not a rule.
> > *My society modifies its charter to be a rule.
>
> R11 disallows this, especially when taken with r18.

I have seperatly proved this to be nonsense.  R11 says rulechanges only 
happen as prescribed in the ruleset; any rule that is part of the ruleset 
that prescribes a change to a rule, whether or not it's calling it a "rule", 
or "reviseable object" if that reviseable object is also a rule, or 
"charter" if that charter is also a rule.  And I've gone through the R18 bit 
quite thouroghly with Wonko.  I'm pretty sure I'm right on the R18 part, but 
if not, still have a backup plan, as I've demonstrated.

> > *Now that the charter both makes me omnipotent and is a rule, I am
> > omnipotent.
> > *With my omnipotency, I close the loophole and get myself a win.
> >
> > Wonko's takeover failed (pending his statement otherwise) because he
> > didn't have any way to modify a charter; I did.
> > Glotmorf's takeover failed because he tried to get a charter to do
> > something, when charter don't themselves have the power to do anything.
> > He could have set it up so that his charter did have that power, and set 
> > it up to where he could control that power, but he didn't.
>
> No, I didn't try to get a charter to do something.  R578: "A society does 
> not take actions unless its charter or a rule dictates it does."  M-Tek's 
> charter: "M-Tek takes an Action upon the Prez stating it does."

Yes, M-Tek does that.  But this isn't where you try to get the charter to do 
something.

> The Prez of M-Tek, which, according to the roster, is me, said M-Tek 
> changes its charter to have 100 charm.

Fine and dandy.  Your charter now has 100 charm.

> The Prez of M-Tek (which, last time I checked, was still me) then changed 
> M-Tek's charter to say that M-Tek distributes its charter's charm to M-Tek 
> members if said charm is above a certain amount.

No, the Prez of M-Tek change the charter to have "If this charter ever 
possesses charm, it evenly distributes it among M-Tek's members."  Meaning 
the charter does the distribution.  Which isn't possible for your standard 
charter.

In any case, if you _had_ changed the charter to say that M-Tek distributes 
its charter's charm, that isn't legal.  Societies may only distribute their 
own charm not the charm of anything else.  Not their charter, not a gremlin, 
not another player.  Only their own charm.  Therefore, M-Tek's charter has 
100 charm, but neither M-Tek's charter nor M-Tek itself can give that charm 
to anyone.

Orc in a Spacesuit

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