Re: [eia] voluntary access

["Kyle H" <menexenus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

JJ wrote:
> At 10:57 AM 8/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >OK, then, I'll state more specific conditions for my voluntary access to
> >Austria, Prussia, Spain, and Turkey:
> >
> >1.)  Access is to last so long as:
> >      a.)  The power is allied to Great Britain.
> >      b.)  The power is not allied with France.
> >
Then Mike wrote:
> Since we're talking how access works, I'll chime in.  How I read this is
> that once condition 1 is violated in either clause a or b, corps from the
> countries granted access would then have to ask permission anew to enter
> British territory.  Forces already within British territory would not be
> affected by the violation of clause one and would continue to have access
> until they departed British territory in such a way that rescinding access
> to return would not block their ability to return from whence they came.
>

    My first instinct was to say that if a player violates a condition of
access, then they must leave immediately.  But I see why that would open a
can of worms that would be difficult to deal with.  Let me illustrate.
Suppose Prussia makes use of JJ's access conditions to garrison Ireland (who
knows why).  Then Prussia breaks its alliance with Great Britain (for some
reason).  How exactly can we demand that the Prussian troops leave
(especially considering that Prussia does not have a fleet)?  If we were to
make such a demand, what would the time-table be?  How would it be enforced?
    See what I mean?  Thinking that guest troops must leave immediately when
an access condition has been violated would force us to re-write large
sections of the rules (as some of us were trying to do with regard to the
limited access rules - which, as far as I know, were never completely
resolved).
    This train of thought leads me to believe that Mike is right.  When
foreign troops have been invited in, nothing can make them leave.  All JJ's
conditions can do is restrict any new corps from entering British territory.
    So, basically, we're left trying to make sense of almost unworkably
vague rules.  The rules state that a country can set conditions on access,
that a player may set any condition he likes, and that other players *must*
obey the conditions set.  This cannot mean that the Prussians (in my
previous hypothetical example) are not allowed to break their alliance with
GB or form an alliance with France.  Other countries' foreign policies
cannot be held hostage to the voluntary access rules.  The only
interpretation I can figure that makes sense is Mike's interpretation:
namely, the condition must be satisfied at the time of entry.  After the
troops are in your territory, all bets are off.  (Of course, if the
conditions are something that the other power *can* abide by - like not
entering a capital city or only entering certain provinces - then those
conditions must be obeyed.  We might distinguish here between the latter
type of example - what I would call "restrictions on access" - and the
former type of example - what I would call a "condition of entry".
According to this classification scheme, JJ's conditions 1a) and 1b) above
would be "conditions of entry" while his condition 2) would be a
"restriction on access".

    So that's what I think we are stuck with if we stick to the rules as
they are written.  At the end of the day, though, I find all of this
somewhat unsatisfying.  It seems to me that there should be some mechanism
for ejecting forces that are no longer welcome in your country.  Perhaps if
we can settle on a particular revision of the limited access rules, we could
apply that revision to this case as well.  In any case, I agree with Mike's
point that it would be better to resolve these questions before they matter.
I hope we can do so quickly.

kdh


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