Re: [s-d] MetaRules and Ideals

[Tyler <wisety@xxxxxxxxx>]

I think I can answer ALL your objections in this one message. Let me know if
I miss one.


> Suber argued rather effectively against metarules; the whole point of
> nomic is that all of the rules should be negotiable once the game has
> begun.


Firstly, I should clarify that MetaRules are not rules at all. They are
societal assumptions that allow us to share the common experience that
is game-playing. If we didn't agree on what playing a game meant, we
couldn't very well agree as to whether we were playing one. So, it's
possible that the MetaRules are subjective, as are definitions of words.
However, you will find, I think, that most people will agree on certain
things, and those are what I have tried to list.


> Also, "that are inherent in nomics" is patently false. ais523, for
> example,
> informs me that the nomic Normish does not require you to follow the
> rules.
>

Hmm. I'm still not convinced that you can play a game without following the
rules. It seems like an obvious contradiction to me. I wrote above my list
of MetaRules that they are "independent of any rules" but that "some rules
may try to enforce or change them." I'd suggest that you may think you're
playing Normish, but if you don't follow all its rules you really aren't.

If you still disagree, it might be because you define 'playing a game'
differently than I do. Have you heard of "The Game"? It's a game in which
each time you think of "The Game" you have to say "I lost the game." I
stopped playing it a long time ago. I've been informed that even though I
don't follow this rule, (I'm not going to say it even if I do think of The
Game,) I am STILL playing The Game but I'm just cheating. So it boils down
to a question of semantics.


> I'm not sure what that means, but I also know that resignation, iirc,
> requires
> manual request & intervention by the admins on Normish and thus is
> not always
> possible.
>


> Resignation from PerlNomic also requires a proposal, although you can
> now opt out of the PerlNomic Partnership by becoming inactive.
>

So, you probably know now what I'm going to say about these supposed
exceptions to the Resignation Anytime MetaRule. Resignation is also a matter
of semantics. Are you still playing if you've stopped 'playing'? I think
not. In our nomic, for example, you might still have a Player to represent
you if you haven't bothered to declare your resignation, but the External
Force which is you could be dead for all the other players know. Can a dead
person still be playing the game, just because they haven't sent an email
telling people they want to Resign? So while you're 'playing' the game,
(doing stuff in the game, affecting it,) you're playing, and while you're
not, you're not.

If I must go further, I'd like to say that most games don't even define a
player. They simple say "deal the players four cards each..." etc. They
assume the players have their own understanding of what playing means. But
if someone ups and walks away, and never comes back to finish their turn, I
say they have resigned. Take that to be what I mean when I explain the
MetaRules.

Wow. After all that, I think the MetaRule I wrote about resignation is
rather meaningless. Maybe I should change it to "You can't stop a person
from doing something you can't stop them from doing out of the game." Ok,
now I'm reconsidering all the stuff I just wrote about following rules and
resignation. I'm really going to have to think about these ones. Let me know
if you think I'm wrong or right, 'cause I'm not sure myself anymore. Thanks
so much for your feedback.


On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Geoffrey Spear <wooble@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:19 AM, ehird <penguinofthegods@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > I'm not sure what that means, but I also know that resignation, iirc,
> > requires
> > manual request & intervention by the admins on Normish and thus is
> > not always
> > possible.
>
> Resignation from PerlNomic also requires a proposal, although you can
> now opt out of the PerlNomic Partnership by becoming inactive.
> --
> Wooble
>  _______________________________________________
> spoon-discuss mailing list
> spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
>



-- 
 -Tyler
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