Re: [s-d] [s-b] Fire sale!

["Jamie Dallaire" <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx>]

I think pikhq still is a Game Object. (I will nuance this sentence lower...)

- pikhq is an External Force, or at least the human who types at a keyboard
and signs his messages pikhq is an External Force. That is, Josiah
Worchester (whether or not that is his real name...) is an External Force.
No doubt about that.
- an Outsider is a Game Object that represents the projection of an External
Force into the game. Nothing indicates which External Forces are projected
into the game as Outsiders and which are not. For all we know, my dog, my
baby cousin, the "y" key on my keyboard, and my copy of Gran Turismo 2 for
Playstation may be projected into the game as Outsiders (which are Game
Objects).
   - What is clear is that all current Players are Outsiders, since only
Outsiders may become Players. One could attempt to argue that the rules
never explicitly projected our human selves into the game, but I would
counter that with 2 arguments
      - 1) the logical one: at the time when most of us (including pikhq)
became players, the rule specifying that all actions that change the
gamestate must be explicitly permitted by the rules was not in place.
      - 2) the utilitarian one: if we were never projected into the game, we
are not players, and we are not playing. all this time we have just been
sending meaningless words to a couple mailing lists.
   - If we current players are all Outsiders, then by the same logic,
pikhq/Josiah was both a player and an Outsider immediately before
forfeiting.
- When pikhq forfeit, that rule about explicitly specified changes WAS in
place, meaning the only gamestate changes that happened when pikhq forfeit
was that pikhq ceased to be a player. The Outsider (a game object) that
represents the projection of Josiah Worchester could not cease to be an
Outsider because it was not allowed by the Rules. (Whether any players who
forfeit before this rule came into effect also ceased to be outsiders is
beyond the point)

Thus, unless I screwed up somewhere (please tell me), I think we can be
quite confident that the rapier in question still exists. Its owner is "the
Outsider that represents the projection of Josiah Worchester into the game
of B Nomic". This seems to be true whether you take the philosophical
position that one particular quark out of the many that make up my bedsheet
is also projected as an Outsider (in which case that quark's projection
could possibly own a device) or that that quark is not projected (in which
case you might think that Josiah Worchester is "trapped" inside the game, or
at least that his projection is).

Billy Pilgrim

On Jan 10, 2008 8:15 PM, Justin Ahmann <quesmarktion@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> But is pikhq still a Game Object?
>
> Codae
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jamie Dallaire <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: discussion list for B Nomic <spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:14:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Fire sale!
>
> Hmmm. That would make sense.
>
> On Jan 10, 2008 8:08 PM, ihope <ihope127@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 10, 2008 7:57 PM, Aaron Coquet <farfromunique@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Is there anywhere in the rules that says something to the effect of,
> > "When a
> > > player quits the game, they are no longer a COO, DOO or other type of
> > > Something-Owning object"?
> >
> > I doubt it. The only applicable rule seems to be:
> >
> > 'A "device owner object", or DOO, is a type of game object that may
> > own devices. All players are device owner objects.'
> >
> > Therefore, whether or not something other than a Player is a DOO is
> > undefined, unless defined elsewhere. I'd say, then, that pikhq is
> > still a DOO despite not still being a Player.
> >
> > --Ivan Hope CXXVII
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> >
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