Bill Adlam on Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:57:14 -0500 (CDT)

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RE: [spoon-discuss] Re: viving the Nomic Market idea

Teucer suggested:

>Imagine if we were the ones poisoning candy and selling the Torpor
>Potions, though. I like this rule. It creates so many possibilities
>for mischief towards other nomics. We just need to be more clever than
>they are, and we most definitely are.

And our clever plan is 'let's make it so easy to destroy us no-one will
think it worth doing'?  I'd prefer to put our house in order, to
provide more of a challenge to our opponents.  Then we mischief them.

> How about this: each item description has enough detail to be dropped
> into a
> ruleset, and each nomic publishes an announcement of every new export
> of
> theirs on the nomic market list. Then each other nomic gets a single
> nweek
> (or whatever their voting period is) to stop it. Similarly, changes
> to the
> definition don't take effect if blocked. The import list is simply a
> self-amending chunk of the ruleset; we can change it by proposal if
> we wish.

You would need an intimate familiarity with the rulesets of all current
and future market nomics to craft a rule that would work correctly in
all of them.  Much better for each Nomic to govern the wording of its
own rules, and to have the power to amend them.

I think it's necessary for the Minister For Trade (or whatever eir
title will be) to publish, in a B Nomic public forum, descriptions of
any newly available/modified/unavailable import goods, with a ruling on
what exactly they do in this game.  And then they're only importable
after the end of the following nweek (not just 10 ndays later), so we
are guaranteed an opportunity to pass a blocking prop.

Or, and this is what I'd prefer, we allow unauthored Import Proposals. 
Such a prop describes a type of item exportable from another Nomic (or,
conceivably, from this one, or from some non-Nomic game), including its
export listing.  The prop also defines its in-game effects here and, if
the players find it acceptable, it passes.  Likewise Export Props can
add/modify/remove items in the Export List.

> >> This prop would more or less merge the rulesets of all
> participating
> >> Nomics, creating a morass of contradictory effects.  (For example,
> what
> >> if we export the GIPEC and then pass a Declaration Of Extreme
> >> Cleverness?  Both rulesets agree there is only one prize, but
> according
> Their ruleset doesn't necessarily mention it. And our rule is
> probably best
> interpreted as "there is only one in B Nomic", so if anyone acquires
> one
> this destroys any others.

Their ruleset probably won't mention it, but their equivalent of your
section D will have to say it exists if it's imported.

> A better analogy: Certain microorganisms, since they reproduce by
> mitosis,
> cannot use their reproductive systems to ensure genetic diversity.
> Consequently, two of the bacteria can hook up, swap a few genes
> around, and
> separate.

Mitosis is a sequence of procedures to duplicate a eukaryotic, not
bacterial, nucleus.  (Usually the cell divides immediately thereafter.)
 Bacteria transfer genes in the form of plasmids that are accepted by
the recipent, in contrast to your phage-like proposal of an outsider
injecting genetic material into an unwitting victim.

Frankly, I think the network security analogy is better, but in either
case we need to be selective in what we accept.

> >> Another possibility is for Z Nomic to export a candy as a
> palatable
> >> confection, but for a brief period (perhaps only seconds) change
> its
> >> definition to a deadly poison that causes anyone possessing it to
> lose
> >> the game.  You take one from a stranger and then, one nweek after
> the
> >> change of recipe on the Z Nomic export list, you drop dead.  And
> when
> >> someone claims Z Nomic changed the description, how do we know
> whether
> >> e's telling the truth?
> You look at their publicly-availible export list.

There's nothing saying old copies of export lists must be publicly
available.  I suggest mandating that export lists be posted on
nomicmarket.  And, while I'm on the subject, it should also be a legal
public forum for offers.  (I don't think r814 needs to be modified to
allow offers between B Nomic and other games).

Was it deliberate that you don't allows nomicmarket to be used for
transfers between two B Nomic players (or, in the degenerate case, one
B Nomic player doing it with emself)?


P.S. Do we think it would be wise to add props to the export list?  Or
slaves?  At the moment nobody owns rules, so at least they can't be exported.

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