SkArcher on 19 Jul 2003 10:27:01 -0000

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Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Gutting the Carcass

19/07/2003 11:20:26, Mark Karasek <mkarasek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:33:23 -0500, Anything McGee 
><anythingmcgee@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Besides which, the text of your proposal only matters if your prop 
>>> passes; so the failure bit is only a failure effect of your prop if your 
>>> prop passes.
>> Not necessarily.  The point of the failure clause is essentially, "If you 
>> choose to pass this prop, then this will happen.  If you choose to fail 
>> it, this will happen instead."  The ruleset doesn't preclude the latter 
>> portion of that statement, but the ruleset does allow things that are not 
>> otherwise prohibited.  It is legal.  Whether it is ethical or proper is 
>> the question -- not that either quality is important in Nomic.
>Wrong. Rule 15 says that when a proposal passes "The effects specified in 
>the proposal occur in the order listed in the proposal.", while making no 
>such provision for failing proposals (obviously). Remember, things listed 
>in a proposal are not game actions--they are _proposed_ game actions, and 
>become game actions if and only if the proposal passes. Otherwise, when a 
>proposal that, for example, created a rule failed, the rule would be 
>created anyway because it wasn't specified that it should only be greated 
>if the proposal passes.

What is different here is that these actions are specified ONLY to happen if and when the prop fails, and therefore fall under the clause;

Other effects specifically related to proposal failure, such as Charm and Entropy adjustments, occur.

from r15 section H

In short, this section specifically says that there can exist actions that are performed when a prop fails, without limiting them to currently extant rules. 
So a prop with a fail clause technically works. It shouldn't, but it does. See the patch prop that I submitted for a fix.


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