Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Foreign affairs

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Baron von Skippy,

>> Is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs still active? I've never heard a report
>> from it, and Athena hasn't posted anything at all lately... is e still
>> here?
> -Eh, then we can get a new Minister, if e isn't still around... well, e
> votes, so I guess e's around, but eir term will end eventually.-

I wouldn't mind doing it... of course, I've said that about at least three
other Ministries lately, and I *still* haven't gotten things finished to do
something with them...

>> 
>>> B. Apathetic
>>> If contact has been made between two games of Nomic and no other
>> definition
>>> of the state of affairs between those games applies, the state of affirs
>>> between those games is defined to be Apathetic.
>> 
>> Affirs?
> -It's a small African nation. The state of Affirs.-

Ah.

>>> C. Cordial
>>> If two Nomic games have made contact and begun Trade, but have not
>> Allied,
>>> then the state of affairs between those games is defined to be Cordial.
>>> 
>>> C.1. The Suber
>>> In order to initiate Trade, both Nomic games trading must set an
>> exchange
>>> rate between their currencies and the universal currency. The universal
>>> currency is the Suber, a quantity of which is written as xS, where x is
>> the
>>> number of Subers, and the exchange rate is calculated by the formula 1S
>> =
>>> x/100 points, where x is the number of points needed to win in the Nomic
>>> game in question and "points" refers to the points or dominant
>> scorekeeping
>>> unit of that game. [[For example: 10 B Nomic points = 1S, because
>> 1000/100 =
>>> 10.]]
>> 
>> If'n yer gonna define the exchange rate between any given currency and the
>> Suber, you probably shouldn't say that the Nomic games must set an exchange
>> rate themselves... And what about Nomics with multiple currencies (like
>> us),
>> currencies that can't be used to win the game (like BNS), and Nomics with
>> no
>> dominant scorekeeping unit/no way to win based on any currency?
> -Answer one: They set their exchange rate via that formula, or they did-
> this will be replaced. I'm thinking about a sort of central commission with
> a delegate from each member game, and they'll set the exchange rates.
> Answer two: I said "points or dominant scorekeeping unit." BNS aren't
> scorekeeping units. Points are.
> Answer three: If you have no points and no currency, what can you trade
> with? Nothing. It's not an exclusive policy, it's just common sense.-

What if the dominant scorekeeping unit isn't used to determine wins? Say,
for example, a Nomic with lots of currencies, but *no* way to win?

>>> C.2. Trade
>>> In order to trade items between two Nomics, both rulesets must first be
>>> compliant with the item to be traded. Rules defining purchasable items
>> can
>>> be created by the Administrator at the request of one player, without a
>> vote
>>> being taken. When a purchasable item is purchased by a player who is not
>> a
>>> player in the game that created the item in the first place, the
>> proceeds
>>> from the sale of that item are converted to Subers and given to the game
>>> that created the item, for distribution according to their ruleset.
>> 
>> The Admin can define Purchasable Items with just one player asking? So if I
>> decide that there should be a Staff of "Wonko and Dave Get Dictatorship",
>> which immediately confers upon Dave and I the power to arbitrarily change
>> the state of any Nomic game containing one, Dave just has to say, "Yeah,
>> sure, whatever." and every Nomic involved will become my toy?
>> Interesting...
> -No, that's not what it (should) say. I'll clarify for those of you who are
> Wonko and enjoy finding holes... if it exists elsewhere, it can exist here.
> So if there is an object in another Nomic game called the Staff of Wonko and
> Dave Get Dictatorship, the rest of us are screwed. Otherwise, sit down and
> shaddap.-

Well, that's what it says - "Rules defining purchasable items can be created
by the Administrator at the request of one player" So if I ask for a rule
defining a purchasable item, Dave can create that rule.

>>> C.2.1. Copyrights
>>> Purchasable items may be copyrighted as products of a certain game.
>> Rules
>>> defining previously copyrighted items may not be created in other Nomic
>>> games unless by the procedure described above.
>> 
>> I'm not sure I follow... so if Agora decided to invent Gnomes, they
>> wouldn't
>> be able to because... our ruleset says they can't?
> -Their ruleset too - they have to comply with our rules on Gnomes in order
> to have them, and our rules on Gnomes are copyrighted.-

What if they already have them? Say, before agreeing to be governed by this
treaty, they propose Gnomes - the treaty doesn't apply to them yet, so
nothing prevents this. Then, they join. Now they've "violated" our
copyright, not be creating the things themselves, but by already having
them.

>>> D. War
>>> If two Nomic games have made contact and either game has agreed under
>> the
>>> terms of its ruleset to declare War on the other, the state of affairs
>>> between those games is defined to be War.
>>> 
>>> D.1. Declaring War
>>> Any Nomic game may at any time declare War against any other Nomic game
>> by
>>> having a player empowered to make links to other Nomic games state that
>> War
>>> has been declared in the appropriate forum of the game they wish to
>> declare
>>> War on.

Is War ever going to do anything?

>> *** Off in Agora ***
>> 
>> Agoran 1: Hey, I know! Let's create Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster Gno- *erk*
>> Uggghhhhhhhh *sound of corpse hitting floor*
>> 
>> Agoran 2: What just happened?
>> 
>> Agoran 3: E tried to propose a copyrighted item!
>> 
>> Agoran 2: What, you mean we can't?
>> 
>> Agoran 3: Nope, it's illegal. B Nomic says so!
>> 
>> Agoran 2: So we couldn't even propose to, say, invent the
>> Sledge-O-Ma-GAAAAHHHHH!!!! *sound of player's head exploding*
>> 
>> Agoran 3: Whoops.
>> 
>> Agoran 4: Uh, you guys wanna stop doing that before I'm the only one left?
>> 
>> Agoran 3: Hey, I know, why don't we copyright rules?
>> 
>> Agoran 4: Hmmmm......
>> 
>> *** Elsewhere, on the Grid ***
>> 
>> Wonko: Wow, these copyrights sure work well! We've saved six different
>> products from nasty foreign competition!
>> 
>> Baron: Yeah, now we just need to add a rule that- *pop*
>> 
>> Glotmorf: Hey, where'd the Baron go?
>> 
>> Wonko: I don't know... e was right over there just a moment ago...
>> 
>> bd (in distance, to Athena): I was thinking, what if we made a rule that
>> *BLAM*
>> 
>> bd's corpse: *thunk*
>> 
>> Wonko: Glotmorf, something just landed in the mud behind me. Do I really
>> want to turn around and see what it is?
>> 
>> Glotmorf: Probably not; it's kind of ugly.
>> 
>> Wonko: Ah. I, uh, don't suppose we could, uh, get a new rule or something
>> in
>> prohibiting that sort of *FOOMP*
>> 
>> *** Back in Agora ***
>> 
>> Agoran 3: Haha! Our copyrights have destroyed them utterly! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!
>> MWAHAHHAHAHA!
>> 
>> Agoran 4: Dude, Nomicron already patented evil laughs.
>> 
>> Agoran 3: What? No! NOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooo *gurgle* *blub blub blub*
>> 
>>> }}
>>> }}
> -Funny, but you're on NomiCrack. How would you patent rules? They aren't
> purchasable items.-

It never says they can't be.

>> Overall, I think this is a really good idea, but I'm not sure it really
>> ought to be put within the scope of our game. Perhaps if an outside
>> organization were set up, which B Nomic just happened to be the first
>> member
>> of? Any Nomic could join the organization, provided that they agreed to be
>> bound by its rules; perhaps certain items could be designated as officially
>> sanctioned for trade by the organization, and a panel of citizens from the
>> various Nomics would be in charge of deciding what objects should be
>> added/removed, and who should control the copyrights. And hey, if anyone
>> with Administrative skills and a yearning for complicated work came along,
>> the thing could blossom into a full-fledged InterNomic, except more
>> interesting.
> -Cool, we're thinking along the same lines... and as far as B Nomic goes, it
> would be something to do with the rewritten Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
> What would we call this coalition thingy? The League of Nomics?-

How about the Nomic Associative Treaty Organization? Or the United Nomics?

-- 
Wonko

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