Re: [spoon-discuss] Refresh Prop again

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Glotmorf,

> On 10/10/02 at 9:34 PM Daniel Lepage wrote:
> 
>> Here's the Refresh Prop again.
>> Changes:
>> *added destruction of any loose Resource Units
>> *fixed anything that involved random squares to work with random surface
>> squares
>> *added removal of points of destruction
>> *added provisions for Engravings, Casino, Tower of Babel
>> *added destruction of attributes Cursed, Dead, Toad, Buttplated, etc.
>> *added setting of endzones (bcs they change when the Grid gets wiped)
>> *added Watch going on for 2 wdays afterwards (to give us time to adjust)
>> 
>> {{
>> __Undoing the damage__
>> 
>> 
>> [[************************** Part I: Societies
>> ***************************]]
>> 
>> Deactivate rule 1075 [[WBE speeder Upgrades; we'll wait on this 'til WBE is
>> working right]]
>> 
>> In rule 578:
>> Append to Section A the text, " No Society may ever convey upon its members
>> the power to take an action which they could not otherwise do."
> 
> Something else:  Add to the end of the second paragraph of section C the
> following: "Changes made to a Society's charter in a given nweek go into
> effect at the beginning of the following nweek."

Okay.

>> Amend section G in its entirety to be:
>> {{
>> G. Creating a Society by Player action
>> 
>> A Player may, no more than once per nweek, in the first five ndays of an
>> nweek, declare a Society by stating eir intent to do so, along with the
>> Society's Charter.
>> The Charter must include a list of the Society's initial Members. Only
>> Players can be initial Members of a Society created by a Player Action.
>> Entities in the list other than the Player declaring the Society must state
>> their acceptance of membership into the Society in the same nweek as the
>> declaration, or will be dropped from the list of initial Members.
>> If, at the end of the nweek in which the Society was declared, a proposal
>> that nweek has barred it from existing, or the Society would have no
>> Members, the Charter is discarded and the Society does not exist.
>> Otherwise,
>> the society is then created.
>> }}
> 
> That takes out G.1.  There's a reason for G.1.  It doesn't allow the creation
> of a society of unknown/unknowable status if the proposal that does so screws
> up and leaves something out.  Like, you know, whatcha call...last nweek.

But G.1. doesn't do anything. All it does is give people a method by which
to do something, which they could do anyway. It's entirely redundant, and
doesn't stop people from doing anything.

>> Destroy all societies except:
>> The Upper House
>> M-Tek
>> vSOI
>> WBE
>> OrcTech
>> AS
>> 
>> [[************************* Part II: NomiCrack *************************]]
>> 
>> Deactivate Rule 1084 [[NomiCrack]] Destroy all Rocks of NomiCrack
>> 
>> [[************************* Part III: The Grid *************************]]
>> 
>> Amend rule 301 to add, in a position of the Admin's choosing [[Somewhere in
>> section A would probably be best]], the sentence, "Whenever a rule refers
>> to
>> 'Grid Squares', it shall refer only to Surface Squares unless specified
>> otherwise."
> 
> This should not apply to the following:
> R301.A.3 -- All squares, surface or no, have substance and depth.
> R301.E.2.2 -- Tunnelling under a siren should not be that easy.
> 
> Things to consider:
> R301.D -- Elbonian throws can only be realistically done at the surface,
> unless one is going to be teleported to the surface for the purpose.
> R301.F.2-* -- Perhaps things can only fall onto surface squares, but they can
> be taken into tunnels, and thrown, whacked, etc within tunnels.
> R355 -- I personally think throwing should be possible in a tunnel, as long as
> the target can be reached from the source by a straight line.
> R394 -- Fumbling should get downright interesting. "Football go down the
> hoooooole..."
> R443 -- Punting should probably only be possible at the surface.  Or else the
> punt range would have to be fairly short underground.
> R498 (and others) -- It should probably only be possible to throw things to
> and from Limbo at the surface.
> R546 -- See R355.
> R550 -- Uses the term "grid space"; other rules use the terms "grid square",
> "grid location", "square", etc.  This will need standardizing.
> 
> In short (too late :P), I think fixing the concept of surface squares may well
> be outside the scope of a single refresh prop.
> 
>> Deactivate Rule 1077 [[Mining - we'll fix this by proposal]]
> 
> This one I disagree with.  I think mining is currently okay.  Especially if
> things dealing with surface squares are taken care of.
> 
> Yes, things can be destroyed.  Given that we've got bomb gnomes and big rocks
> falling and other things, if something needs to continue to exist for the sake
> of game continuance, that thing should have a provision for re-creation,
> reincarnation, replacement, what-have-you.
> 
> Strictly speaking, the Football does have such a provision, in the form of,
> "There exists an entity known as the Football."  Since the football rule has a
> lower number than the mining rule, it could be interpreted that the Football
> is now resting on the new surface square.

Bomb Gnomes are quite explicit in what they destroy. Big Rocks can't destroy
anything save other Rocks - they break if they land on anything.

The Mining rule is the ONLY rule in the ruleset that simply destroys
*anything* on the target square. Everything else (even the Entropy
Grid-Clearing) specifies exactly what gets destroyed, and only specifies
things with provisions for being destroyed.

As for the Football being destroyed, I see no reason why it should be on the
new surface square. If it was destroyed, then it should exist again now, but
not at any given Grid location. It just sort of exists in general, the way
the Grid exists without having any specific location. Or, if it wasn't
destroyed because a rule says it exists, then it's still right where it was,
in the old surface square, which is now a vacant square floating above the
Grid.

Either way, things are confusing.

>> Amend rule 154, section B.6. [[Entropy]] thusly:
>> On the list of events, add to the list of objects in the second item of the
>> list the following objects: Brooks, Sponges, Shears, Ancient Monoliths,
>> Athames, Sledge-O-Matics, Piles of Kindling, Towels, Small Lumps of Scrap
>> Metal, and Large Lumps of Scrap Metal.
>> 
>> Create the Football at (1,1).
> 
> Excuse me?  On the goal line? :)

Doesn't make a difference; see my response to Orc.

>> Amend rule 1069 to replace the word "squares" in the first paragraph with
>> "Surface Squares"
> 
> Replace the phrase "Grid Squares" rather than just the word "Squares".

Does it say Grid Squares?

>> Raise each player's Entropy by 2000 [[Triggering an Entropy Apocalypse to
>> wipe the grid clean]]
>> 
>> Destroy all Gnomes, Pinball guns, and Airspeeders.
>> 
>> Put all surface squares on the same level. [[That's a really confusing
>> point
>> of the new Grid Rule - it seems to say that every surface square has
>> elevation 0, regardless of whether it's been moved. Personally, I think
>> that
>> change alone could have been a prop by itself, as there are all sorts of
>> confusing things in the ruleset now - like the fact that although we've
>> obliterated the elbonia-squares, along with numerous others, but the
>> surface
>> squares of those surface units still appear to be on the same level as
>> everything else.]]
> 
> Not true.  It doesn't say that surface squares have elevation 0.  It says they
> have depth 0.  Elevation is an absolute, based on the initial level of surface
> squares in the grid; depth is a relative value, based on distance downward
> from the surface square.
> 
> But, okay, we can officially initialize them.

Alright. I'm not sure I entirely understand where all this is...

>> Amend rule 394.A.2. by replacing the last 2 sentences with, " For Team
>> Turquoise, the end-zone is any location on The Grid with x-coordinate equal
>> to 1. For Team Crimson, the end-zone is any location on The Grid with
>> x-coordinate equal to 20."
> 
> Er...that's what it says now.

Yeah, but when Entropy kicks in, and it's possible that I might have one, it
could have been flipped multiple times. Let's be clear.

>> Close the Casino.
>> 
>> Erase all Engravings.
>> 
>> Destroy the Tower of Babel and recreate it on a random surface square.
> 
> Do we really need the Tower of Babel?  I mean, it looks spiffy in Orc's
> picture, but...

I'm not going to repeal stuff that does work here. Propose it if you want.

>> [[************************** Part V: Restocking
>> **************************]]
>> 
>> Give each player 1000 BNS.
>> Create 150 points in the Gremlin Fund.
>> 
>> Destroy all Service Malls.
>> 
>> Place Service Malls on every surface square with x and y coordinates that
>> are both integral multiples of 6.
>> 
>> Place 12 bonus boxes on random surface squares.
>> Place 2 athames, 2 Big Rocks, 3 Balls of Wax, and an Ancient Monolith on
>> the
>> Grid on random Surface Squares.
>> Place all Hands on the Grid on random Surface Squares.
>> 
>> Make six randomly chosen Gremlins Active and place them on randomly chosen
>> Surface Squares.
>> 
>> [[*************************** Part VI: Honors
>> ****************************]]
>> 
>> Give each player a T-Shirt with the text, "I survived Nweek 24, no thanks
>> to
>> Wonko, Glotmorf, BvS, Orc, bd, or Wonko May Not Vote".
>> 
>> Give Glotmorf one point of Respect, for creating the Deactivation rule that
>> cut the length of this refresh prop tremendously.
>> 
>> Give Glotmorf the title: "Lord of the Bulldozers".
>> Give Orc in a Spacesuit the title: "Lord of the Gnomic Wastings"
>> Give bd the title: "Knight of the Gnomic Wastings"
>> Give Wonko and BvS each the title: "Knight of the Bulldozers"
>> Give Wonko and Glotmorf each the title: "Most Disputed Bastard" [['cos of
>> WBE]]
> 
> Well, Dave said my WBE was the legitimate one, so that makes you most
> disputed.  Les'n you're counting that speeder thang...:)  But hey, who am I to
> turn down a title? ("Look, guys!  Matching T-shirts!")

I disagree with that. I guess I'll have to CFI it. Except I thought I did...

-- 
Wonko

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