Re: [spoon-discuss] Things wrong with "Junior G-Men"

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Glotmorf,

> On 7/2/02 at 8:44 PM Wonko wrote:
> 
>> Quoth Glotmorf,
>> 
>>> On 7/1/02 at 10:25 PM Wonko wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Quoth Glotmorf,
>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/30/02 at 2:56 AM David E. Smith wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fourth, even if the other listed members could assent to membership,
>> and
>>>>>> could make proposals, they couldn't vote (their attempt to do so
>> being a
>>>>>> society rule, which defers to game rule 294). (This argument is a bit
>>>>>> specious, but the others should make up for it.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> The attempt of the members of the Junior G-Men to vote is not a society
>>>> rule.
>>>>> It is a requirement under Rule 578, subsection F: "All Members of a
>>>> Society
>>>>> auto-vote "yes" on any proposal the Society submits."  That means the
>>>> members
>>>>> of the Junior G-Men are specifically allowed by the rules to vote.
>> Even
>>>> if
>>>>> you interpret "these rules" to mean the text of Rule 294, Rule 578
>>>> subsection
>>>>> F has a Chutzpah of 2, and therefore takes precedence.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm sorry, where does it say that sections can have Chutzpahs that
>> differ
>>>> from their parent rule's?
>>> 
>>> Rule 497:
>>> 
>>> "If multiple subsections of a rule conflict with another rule, only those
>>> subsections with a Chutzpah higher than the conflicting rule will take
>>> priority over the conflicting rule. If multiple subsections of a rule
>> conflict
>>> with each other, the subsection with the highest Chutzpah takes
>> precedence;
>>> otherwise, normal precedence rules are followed."
>>> 
>> 
>> Rule 33:
>> 
>> "In the event of a conflict between two or more rules, the rule with the
>> highest Chutzpah takes precedence."
>> 
>> Rule 33 has a lower number than rule 497; it therefore supercedes it.
> 
> Rules 33 and 497 are not in conflict.  Rule 33 talks about an entire rule
> conflicting with another; Rule 497 talks about subsections of a rule
> conflicting with another rule, where different subsections of the rule have
> different Chutzpahs.  Two different cases, two different rules.
> 

They conflict in this case - a subsection of one rule contradicts a
different rule. Rule 33 states that the subsection defers, because a
subsection is part of its parent rule, so it's a conflict between to rules,
and the subsection's parent defers to the other rule. Rule 497 says
otherwise - that the subsection can have an independant Chutzpah and thus
supercedes the other rule.

So:

By r33, r294 supercedes r578 in its entirety.
By r497, sF of r578 supercedes r294.

This is a conflict.

By r33, r33 supercedes r497 in the event of a conflict.

Thus, r294 supercedes r578 in its entirety.

-- 
Wonko

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