Re: [eia] Turkish Land Phase, February 1807

["Kyle H" <menexenus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

    I agree with JJ.  It just doesn't make sense that a corps that is on
boats in the docks of a port has to be unloaded into the area *outside* the
city.  I think the rules could have been a bit clearer on this point, but I
would chalk that up to unintended vagueness.  There's just no other
explanation.
    If anyone is interested, here's what Empires in Harm has to say:

"Corps being transported on Fleets that moved into a port must disembark in
the port's area. If the port is under siege, and they will not fit inside
the port, the excess Corps are disembarked outside the port, and must fight
the besiegers in a trivial combat.  Corps may not land in a port without
passing through the port's blockade box" (Rule 7.3.8).

Notice that this wording is exactly the same as the wording in EiA ("port's
area"), but the rest of the rule clearly implies that corps can disembark
into ports if they fit.  So apparently, the EiH authors are using the phrase
"port's area" to indicate that the corps may disembark into any part of the
port's area - the land area outside the port *or* the port that is contained
within.  (I guess they felt that since both the port and the surrounding
territory are part of the same area, there was no need to specify.  I don't
think it is too much of a stretch to think that the authors of EiA had the
same intention.)  In any case, it is clear that the authors of EiH thought
that disembarking into a besieged port city is permitted.

    I'm sure Danny would agree that he doesn't have to disembark outside the
city.  So 4 people's opinions are known.  Would anyone else like to share
their view?

kdh


----- Original Message -----
From: "J.J. Young" <jjy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "public list for an Empires in Arms game" <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [eia] Turkish Land Phase, February 1807


> Having thought about it a bit, I have concluded that Joel is correctly
> interpreting the literal meaning of rule 7.3.5, but that that meaning is
> nonsense and is probably a mistake.
>
> It makes no sense to say that the dockyards where troops disembark from a
> fleet is located outside of the city.  If this was so, then fleets would
> have to leave a port area when the _area_ was occupied by an enemy,
instead
> of when the _city_ is occupied by an enemy (6.2.6).  This rule makes it
> clear that the Spanish fleet, which the Cavalry corps is embarked on right
> now, is located in the city and not the area.
>
> Another example: if a fleet carrying troops moved into a port, and then
that
> port was blockaded by an enemy fleet later in the naval phase, the troops
> are not prevented from disembarking just because the fleet carrying them
is
> prevented from going to the area outside to drop them off.  I think it is
> clear that a fleet in a port area is intended to be in the city, not the
> area outside.  And therefore any corps transported by a fleet to the port
> should be allowed to disembark.
>
> -JJY
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J.J. Young" <jjy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "public list for an Empires in Arms game" <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [eia] Turkish Land Phase, February 1807
>
>
> > Hmmm.  What does everyone else think of this interpretation ?
> >
> > -JJY
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joel Uckelman" <uckelman@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "public list for an Empires in Arms game" <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [eia] Turkish Land Phase, February 1807
> >
> >
> > > Thus spake "J.J. Young":
> > > > So, am I interpreting the rules correctly, that the Spanish cavalry
> > corps
> > > > has not yet disembarked, and is still on the ships in Algiers
harbor,
> > rather
> > > > than being part of the city garrison ?
> > > >
> > > > If this is the case (and I'm not giving anything away here, because
> > there
> > > > are no choices involved), then if the city is captured, then the
fleet
> > must
> > > > move out to the Algiers blockade box, or the sea space off the
coast.
> > The
> > > > cavalry corps, then, _must_ land in an adjacent land area on the
> Spanish
> > > > land phase, or demobilize.
> > > >
> > > > I'm referencing rules 7.3.5 and 6.2.6.
> > > >
> > > > -JJY
> > >
> > > I think Spain is in that situation regardless. 7.3.5 says that "Corps
> > being
> > > transported on fleets that moved into a port must disembark in the
> port's
> > > area." This doesn't say "into the port". I realize that there's a case
> to
> > > be made for a port being in its area, but if both were options, I
expect
> > > they would have said "into the port or its area" instead. And there
are
> > > already clear cases of prohibition on defenders in besieged cities
being
> > > reinforced, e.g., 5.2.2.2.1 and 5.2.2.2.2 disallow the placement of
new
> > > factors in besieged corps and garrisons, regardless of their presence
in
> > an
> > > unblockaded port. So I believe Spain's options are 1) disembark into
the
> > > area, which initiates a battle with the Tunisians, or 2) disband.
> > >
> > > --
> > > J.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > eia mailing list
> > > eia@xxxxxxxxx
> > > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/eia
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > eia mailing list
> > eia@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/eia
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eia mailing list
> eia@xxxxxxxxx
> http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/eia
>

_______________________________________________
eia mailing list
eia@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/eia