Kyle H on 18 Apr 2003 16:50:01 -0000 |
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[eia] supplementing 12.4 - "limited access" |
I'd just like to remind everybody (in case everyone has forgotten) that we've had a discussion about 12.4 before. Here's what I recall about that discussion: - The consensus was that 12.4, as it is currently written, does not place any real restrictions on the access given to the former enemy after peace is made. (This was Joel's recent point.) - The consensus was that this unrestricted access can lead to some undesirable consequences. (This was Mike's recent point.) - The consensus was that all the alternative interpretations of "limited access" that we had come up with to date had consequences that were just as absurd as giving the former enemy unlimited access. - The consensus was that until we found a superior interpretation of what constitutes "limited access", we would stick with the unlimited access rule. (However, it was resolved that we would keep searching for a suitable substitute.) Now I'm not trying to say that my recollection of the discussion is official. I'm just trying to tell you what I remember. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. In any case, for the record, I agree with our earlier consensus that we should continue to use an "unlimited access" interpretation of 12.4 until such time as we can agree on restrictions on access that make sense. (So if anyone has some suggestions, please feel free to make them.) Since JJ asked, below I am including the text of the relevant EiH ruling that attempts to resolve this issue. (I will comment on it a bit below the text.) 4.6.8 Effects Of Peace When two Major Powers make any type of peace, the following are always done: 4.6.8.1 Peace Treaty Limited Access and Prisoner Exchange All captured factors (less losses; 7.8) and captured leaders are mutually exchanged. Any captured Cavalry or Guard Cavalry factors return as Infantry or Guard factors, respectively. For every two captured Artillery factors, one Infantry factor is returned (round down). The exchanged factors are placed as reinforcements during the next Reinforcement Phase. This is the only time captured factors are exchanged, though captured leaders may be returned at any time at the captor's option. In addition, when peace is made, the former enemies have a period of automatic "limited access" to get their forces out of the former enemy Major Power's controlled territory. · By the end of three Land Phases after peace is made, all garrison factors must be out of the other Major Power's controlled cities. In the case of a victor that chose peace condition C.5, the requirement is reduced to getting garrisons out of the capital cities during this period. Upon conclusion of a peace agreement garrisons also have the one time option of taking "honors of war" to be placed in the nearest friendly city, that can hold the factors. · By the end of six Land Phases after peace is made, all Corps, Fleets, depots and depot garrison factors must be out of the other Major Power's controlled territory. This requirement can be ignored by a victor that chose peace condition C.5. · In this six-month period, embarkation on ships for the purpose of naval transport is always allowed through port cities in the former enemy Major Power's controlled territory with no permission required. · Each Land Phase, Corps must either move closer towards their capital or friendly controlled territory, using the shortest viable route, or not move at all. · Peace Treaty Limited Access is not considered access for the purpose of providing a casus bellum, under 4.4.2. For the purposes of this section, "controlled territory" is defined as: provinces, ceded provinces, Conquered, Client State or Ally minor countries of the Major Power in question. In general, I think this is a pretty good solution, but there is one problem I can foresee. Suppose that France surrenders unconditionally to Spain. As part of the Peace Treaty, Spain chooses C.4 - Annex 3 territories. Spain chooses Gascony and Languedoc, which border Spain. As the 3rd territory, Spain chooses Champagne, because Spain happens to have a corps there at the time the peace is made. (C.4 specifies that you can only choose to annex territories that either border the victor's territory or that contain a corps of the victorious major power.) So now Spain controls Champagne and has a corps there. If we adopted the EiH rules above, then that corps would essentially be trapped in Champagne with no way home. (According to the 4th bullet point, the corps must move closer to the Spanish capital or Spanish territory. Since Champagne is Spanish territory now, any movement through French territory would constitute a violation of this rule. And since Champagne is land-locked, the Spanish corps would essentially be stuck. I think this problem can be fixed relatively easily. We amend the 4th bullet point of EiH-4.6.8.1 so that it reads: "However, a Corps that was in enemy territory prior to the Peace Treaty but that is now in friendly territory (due to the ceding of territory) may move through the former enemy's territory using the shortest route available toward that Corps's Major Power home nation capital or other friendly territory (at the Corps owner's option)." Another concern I have is that since these rules specify the path that a withdrawing army must take, it would be relatively easy for an ally to set up a "screen" that keeps the withdrawing enemy from returning home. Fixing this problem requires that some emphasis be placed on the term "viable" (in the phrase "shortest viable route"). Just because a route is the shortest, that does not make it the shortest *viable* route. I would say that a route is not "viable" if enemy corps lie along that route. So the "shortest viable route" would mean "the shortest route that is not occupied by enemy forces". Of course, this still presents a bit of a problem. Even if we allow a withdrawing army to march around enemy forces, this rule could still be used to punish a withdrawing army - for instance, the allied enemy corps could place themselves in a position that would force the withdrawing enemy to make awful forage rolls when going around. For this reason, I would insist that the withdrawing army should still have the *option* of taking the shortest route, even if enemy corps do lie along that route. A withdrawing army should not be forced to march through the desert or through marshes just to avoid a fight with a belligerent allied enemy if they don't want to. So anyway, there's my 2 cents. I think the EiH supplements are a good starting place for interpreting 12.4 as long as a few caveats and amendments are made. If you think that this would be a workable House Rule, please say so. If you can foresee other problems with it, please let me know. Hopefully we can put this issue to rest once and for all. kdh _______________________________________________ eia mailing list eia@xxxxxxxxx http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/eia