Re: [s-d] [s-b] Proposal: Vested Interests

["Jamie Dallaire" <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx>]

You make some good points about the paper trail. I hadn't thought of that. I
definitely need to find some workaround if this proposal is to work. As for
vacating the ministry at the end of the week, that is true, but I'm sure I
can rework that phrase to say the former minister or something.

As for being unfair, it certainly can be. Perhaps the points are a bit much.
But this kind of rule would just force the apologist and devil's advocate to
work that much harder at pushing certain viewpoints.

Taking these into account I'll think about the idea and will surely resubmit
something. I will also be including a provision I forgot to enter in the
original, that says each of these two players is scored on proposals except
for his own. Not a huge problem for the Apologist, but the Devil's Advocate
could otherwise attempt to submit a large number of outlandish proposals
which would fail with a strength lower than -3 (break even point considering
failed proposals lose 3 points), thought that tactic could of course
backfire if the other players coordinate their voting accordingly (just to
ensure it fails by one vote, for example).

As for the Karma System you propose, I don't really think it's the way to go
because it induces conformity (maybe nominally only - last minute vote
switching - but probably also some players just following the current). I
prefer the idea of Dissent being Patriotic, though my conception of dissent
would simply be going against whatever option - for or against - won, rather
than simply being against everything as in the current proposal. That said
that one can also lead to some last minute switching so I'd be hesitant to
implement it even then.

Billy Pilgrim

On 11/9/07, Mike McGann <mike.mcgann@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Interesting concept, but I don't think it would work.
>
> While notification via Private Forum would be required to make this work,
> it
> doesn't provide any kind of paper trail to validate game state if it is
> contested. A Player named either the Apologist or Devil's Advocate who
> loses
> a lot of points in a given nweek could contest that they never received
> their notification by Private Forum.
>
> The Minister of Change is supposed to reveal the identities at the end of
> the nweek, but all Ministries also vacate at the end of the nweek. Not
> sure
> what would happen there.
>
> The Apologist and Devil's Advocate have no control over what proposals are
> submitted. If the nweek contains a lot of popular proposals, the Devil's
> Advocate would be at a huge disadvantage. If the nweek contains a lot of
> unpopular proposals, the Apologist would be at a huge disadvantage. The
> scoring is also a little to severe--one point instead of Strength would be
> better but would still be unfair.
>
> I was thinking about a Karma system where you get a point if you vote "the
> correct" way--getting a point if you voted FOR a proposal that passed and
> a
> point if you voted AGAINST a proposal that failed. The problem with that
> is
> everyone could change their vote at the last minute to go the "correct
> way".
>
> - Hose
>
> On Nov 9, 2007 1:13 AM, Jamie Dallaire <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > As a Game Action, I submit the following Proposal:
> > {
> >
> > In Rule 2-2 (Proposals), under the heading "The Ministry of Change", add
> a
> > new paragraph that reads:
> > {
> > At the beginning of an nweek, the Minister of Change is responsible for
> > naming one Active Player the Apologist, naming a different Active Player
> > the
> > Devil's Advocate, and notifying each of them of their role via a Private
> > Forum. At the end of an nweek, the Minister of Change must announce the
> > identity of the Apologist and of the Devil's Advocate via a Public
> Forum.
> > }
> >
> > Add 2 bullet points to the bottom of Rule 2-6 (Scoring), that read:
> > {
> > * If the Proposal was ever Won, the Apologist gains and the Devil's
> > Advocate
> > loses a number of points equal to the Proposal's Strength.
> > * If the Proposal was never Won, the Devil's Advocate gains and the
> > Apologist loses a number of points equal to the Proposal's Strength.
> > }
> >
> > }
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Billy Pilgrim
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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