shadowfirebird on Sun, 17 Dec 2006 08:50:25 -0700 (MST)

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Re: [s-d] [s-b] Amended Proposal "Rule Tag"

Thanks, your preferences have been noted.  I found them interesting.

> If you just say "Any player may change eir element", this implicitly
> makes it a game action.

I like to spell out when something is a game action.  I know it's not
really necessary, but I think that it makes things clearer.

> If you say "Any player may change eir element, but only once per
> nweek and only before the end of nday 8.", then you also eliminate
> the need for the next two sentences.
> Or, better yet, you could make this a rule tag action, in which case
> it would fall under your later rule that says that rule tag actions
> in general can't be taken if the nday is greater than 8.

There was a specific reason why I kept the element attribute outside
of the game of rule tag; I didn't want to preclude some other rule or
subgame from using it, too.

> > There is an attribute "rule tag location".  Its scope is all players
> > and all RTO's.  Its range consists of the list of rule numbers, and
> > the value "null".  Its default value is null.  The rule tag location
> > may be referred to as the "RTL".  The rule pointed to by an RTL may be
> > referred to as the "RTL rule".
> I don't think I like this syntax. I'd rather make it not an
> attribute; instead say "Every player and every RTO has a rule tag
> location (RTL), which is either an existing rule or the special
> location "null". All objects are initially at null."

Since we have the attrbute syntax, it seems silly not to use it.

> > All rule tag actions must be made before the end of nday 8.  [[To give
> > the rule tag moderator a chance.]]
> I'd prefer "rule tag actions cannot be taken after nday 8 of each
> nweek". That makes it clear that it applies to each nweek separately.

We get an nday 8 each week.  It seems pretty clear to me.

> > Each player may only make one rule tag action of each type in a single
> > nweek.  Only the last rule tag action ey makes of a given type in a
> > given nweek shall be counted as having meaning in the rules.
> There is no spivak pronoun "ey", though this is a common mistake.

See my comments in the other thread.

> > The Rule Tag Moderator decides whether any given ruletag action is
> > valid.
> Does this give the moderator the power to cancel actions that would
> otherwise be valid? E.g., can I try to enter the game from null and
> be rejected on the Moderator's whim?

No, the "rule tag moderation" rule says that the moderator has to obey
the rules.  The rules say when a rule tag action is valid or not.

> I think this next section could be phrased more elegantly. I would
> separate the linking of rules from movement. Make a section that says
> that two rules are "linked" if one defines a term used in the other,

Well, I have done that.  I just put the section defining what "linked"
meant after the section on movemement, instead of before.  But you
make a good argument.  I'll play with that if there's a new

> > At the end of the nweek, after passed proposals have been enacted into
> > the rules, the rule tag moderator changes the state of each player and
> > object as follows and in the order shown:
> "after passed proposals have been enacted" is tricky - it means the
> moderator has to wait until the admin updates the ruleset and
> restarts the clock before posting these results. It also means that
> if the rules changed that nweek, the moderator has to redo any
> calculations e did during the Voting period, which negates the
> benefit of disallowing actions during that time. Resolving actions
> before proposals would probably be a good idea.

I can't.  I need to know which rules have changed, and which have been revoked.

> > 4) Players on the same (non-null) RTL as another player lose or gain
> > points based on their elemental precedence.  This works as follows:
> > Earth beats Water; Water beats Fire; Fire beats Air; Air beats Earth;
> > all other combinations are neutral.
> > Whenever a player has a losing elemental precedence to another player
> > then ey loses 15 points; these points go to the player with the
> > winning elemental precedence.  Where there are more than two players
> > on an RTL, each combination of players is honoured.
> > [[So given three players with elements Earth, Air and Fire, on the
> > same RTL: Air gives Fire 15 points; Earth gives Air 15 points.]]
> I feel like this should be in a different rule. The subgame breaks
> into a few components: 1) Linking rules, 2) Moving between rules, 3)
> Grabbing/Dropping objects, 4) Elements, and 5) Basketball. I feel
> that putting each in its own rule, or at least in its own subsection,
> would make the subgame as a whole easier to understand.

I sympathise, but we need to establish the exact order actions are
resolved in.  So this needs to go here.

> > Rule tag is a sub-game, if such a term has meaning in the Rules; but
> > where this rule conflicts with any other rule regarding sub-games,
> > then this rule takes precedence.
> What does this mean?

There's another subgame, "It Lives!", in the discussion stage.  It has
a preamble where it gives some general rules for subgames.  It seems
to me that general rules for subgames are quite likely to come up in
future.  I wanted to make sure that ruletag 1) was an "official"
subgame; 2) wasn't interfered with by any generic subgame rule.

> No punishment for missing the nday 9 update?

No, for a couple of reasons.  First, as you've already spotted, since
you can't make any moves in ndays 9-12, it doesn't actually matter
that much; second, it's been made clear to me that players don't often
volunteer for posts, so I'm keen to make this as non-onerous as
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