Daniel Lepage on Mon, 11 Dec 2006 02:04:26 -0700 (MST)

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Re: [s-d] [s-b] nweek 113 ballot

On Dec 11, 2006, at 3:50 AM, shadowfirebird@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

>>>> 43      Monotonicity is rather dull, don't you think?
>>> ABSTAIN.  [[No game effect.  Why?]]
>> This allows the Administrator to skip sequence numbers in the event
>> we're not entirely sure whether an object exists or not.
> Well, yes.  But why?  There is nothing in the rules that says that all
> proposals have to be numbered in sequence; only that, when the
> administrator assigns the number, it must be the highest existing
> number plus one; which is not the same thing at all.

How so? If you increment by one each time, you'll end up with the  
numbers in sequence.

> If we have proposals 23,24,25 and it turns out that proposal 24 is
> invalid, there is nothing in the rules that is broken.  At the time of
> assigning the a number to 25, the administrator did what the rules
> said.

If p24 is invalid, then it doesn't exist and never existed. This  
means that when the proposal now numbered 25 came out, there wasn't  
actually a proposal numbered 24, and hence the "highest existing  
number plus one" was 24. Thus, "p25" was assigned number 24; we just  
didn't know it at the time.

> If there is a problem it lies in the fact that there is no way to rule
> a game object void.  The proposal exists, or it does not.  Maybe we
> need a way of making a proposal not valid while still existing.  Or
> perhaps the "no retrospectives" rule would apply here, if it passes.

That's true - if we had a way to make attempted props/rules/RFJs/etc.  
become "void" instead of simply not being there, then the numbers  
wouldn't get screwed up. On the other hand, there are infinitely many  
illegal actions one could take, and I think I'd prefer it if none of  
them left any mark on the game.

What if, for example, I claim to submit a billion empty proposals?  
Maybe I goofed and I can't do that, but if they become "void" props  
instead of simply not being there, then I just incremented the number  
by a billion, which if nothing else will make the website really hard  
to read.


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