Re: [s-d] Why no mutable/immutable?

["Andy Jones" <shadowfirebird@xxxxxxxxx>]

Peter, Daniel,  I've been thinking some more about your original
reasons why immutables would not work, and I'm still not sure that you
are right.


> Basically, you can make a rule
> that says something like "All rules can be repealed. This rule supercedes
> our current precedence rule, and all other rules, even if they say this
> one can't do that." Or maybe you'd need to go through the trouble to
> creating an entire new ruleset, and then changing the game to follow that
> ruleset instead of the old one. But adding rules to make changing some
> rules harder just makes it harder to change them, not impossible.

Well, yes.  Same with the suberian ruleset.  Harder is what I had in mind.

> With rule changes via loophole (instead of proposal), it's generally
> polite to just use the loophole to fix the loophole, claim a Win, and let
> gameplay continue.

Noted; thank you for pointing that out.

> There are two main differences between Immutable and Mutable rules in
> Suber's ruleset. Firstly, immutable rules require a 2/3 vote to
> change, while Mutable rules only require a majority. Secondly, an
> Immutable rule requires two rule changes, and hence two turns, to
> change, because it has to be transmuted and then modified.
>
> The first isn't an obstacle in our system. I could, for instance,
> make a proposal that created a new proposal, set each player's vote
> on the proposal to FOR, and then resolved the proposal. The new
> proposal would pass unanimously if and only if the original proposal
> passed at all.

I'm not exactly sure I follow that, but I think that you are
suggesting a proposal that would vote for me.  I wouldn't vote for a
proposal that voted for me, and I suspect that I would not be alone.
That 2/3 third, or unanimous or whatever, majority is a genuine
barrier that makes immutable rules more difficult to change.

> The second also isn't an obstacle, because I could put "transmute
> rule X" and "amend rule X" in the same proposal.

This is perfectly true, however.


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