Mark Walsh on Mon, 9 Jan 2006 13:49:14 -0600 (CST)

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Re: [s-d] Triller submits p332

On: 1/9/06 10:37:38 AM Wonko sent:
> Subject: Re: [s-d] Re: [s-b] [auto] Triller submits p332
> On Jan 9, 2006, at 12:46 PM, Mark Walsh wrote:
> > On: 1/9/06 6:03:45 AM Antonio sent:
> >> Subject: [s-d] Re: [s-b] [auto] Triller submits p332
> > What sequence?
> > The sequence is from 1 to X.
> But in what order do you assign those numbers to the objects? This  
> prop doesn't specify the initial ordering method, and doesn't even  
> clearly indicate that the initial order should be decided before the  
> random numbers are rolled. So while "Shuffling" a pack of cards, I  
> could roll the dice to see how things are swapped, and then construct  
> the initial state such that the state I want will result from the  
> swaps I rolled.
Actually, it does call for initially ordering sequentially from 1 to X.
I suppose a Minister could manage to obtain the random numbers
before performing the initial ordering, and then stack the deck, if 
you will, by pre-arranging the list to provide an advantage. 
This reaches to trusting the Ministers. Antonio has already made 
incorrect assumptions and acts as Super. I've done so myself, but
have made the appropriate corrections.
> I don't really like the dice roller because I think it takes too many  
> messages to do anything. Part of this stems from my time as Minister  
> of the Arena, when a given action frequently required four or five  
> die rolls that all depended on the earlier rolls (if a roll of 3d5 is  
> less than eight, then the shot hits and does 4d9 damage, but  
> otherwise it hits a random neighboring cube with equal probability  
> between all neighbors and does 4ds damage to each player in that  
> cube, where s is that player's strength, etc.). This either required  
> a large number of messages, or a set of really weird rolls (we roll  
> 18d147; if the first one is less than 87 then the shot hits, in which  
> case the second and third die rolls are both divided by 17 and summed  
> to get the damage dealt, otherwise the second mod 3 determines which  
> other square is hit and the third and fourth determine damage when  
> divided by 18 if the shot hits Peter or by 12 if it hits Wonko, and...)
That's an extreme case (though conceivably real). Right now we even
have a simple case, the Basement, which calls for a 1d3 if the initial
1d4 is a 4. It is work, but that's what they pay me for.
> If I as a Minister were called upon to shuffle something, I would  
> much rather use a simple tool (like one of Python's randomizing  
> functions) than have to roll a bunch of dice and perform all the  
> swaps. This isn't so bad for Super Powers, but I can remember being  
> Minister of Cards, where I occasionally had to shuffle a hundred  
> objects at once; this method would be completely infeasible.
I've got an excel macro of 8 simple lines of code that handle
this scenario beautifully for any number of objects. Its merely
a matter of copying the dice rools out of the return message
and pasting them into an excel column. The macro handles all
the swapping IAW the dice rolls. It's even a simple matter to
modify 3 of those lines to provide a running display of each swap
and the resultant order. Posting that with a reasonable length is
another matter.
> What I'd really like is a dice roller that edits the text of a  
> message and passes it on. I'd like to be able to email the dice  
> server and say "Wonko gains {3d6}A" and have it post to s-b saying  
> "Wonko gains 15A". I'd also like it to handle shuffling and choices:
> "{Wonko, Peter, Triller, bd, Antonio, comex} gets a {Beer, Bomb,  
> Grain, Salad, Pizza, Yoyo, Fettucini} Gnome" -> "Wonko gets a Beer  
> Gnome. Peter gets a Grain Gnome. Triller gets a Yoyo Gnome. etc..."
> "{x=1d2}
> Wonko {x==1 gains} {x==2 loses} 12 HP." -> "Wonko loses 12 HP"
> Perhaps best of all would be one that executes strings of some  
> programming language within a restricted environment. Python, for  
> example, would be ideal for me since most random rolls would only  
> take a few lines of code, maybe only one or two, and the language is  
> easy to read and to teach new Ministers.
> But with the tools we have right now, I'd rather just trust the  
> various ministers to roll dice properly.
> -- 
> Wonko
Ah well, I could worry this to death (mine).
If it's up to me I'll be using this method anyway; it's simple,
straightforward, and works as advertised. But I suppose
as long as noone else likes it, they can use whatever method
they see fit. 

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