Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] CFIs

[Daniel Lepage <dpl33@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Jan 27, 2004, at 4:44 PM, Glotmorf wrote:

> Not that I'm the judge or anything, but here are some
> thoughts...
>
> --- Zarpint Jeremy Cook <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I make the following CFI:
> > {{
> > Statement:
> >
> > 1. Actions take place upon reaching a Public Forum
> > regardless of
> > recognition by the Administrator if the Clock is on.
> > 2. The following actions take place upon reaching a
> > Public Forum,
> > regardless of recognition by the Administrator, if
> > the Clock is off:
> > Players joining
> > Players forfeiting

That's two statements; I don't think this is a legal CFI.

> > <snip>
> >
> > }}
>
> Rules 3 and 14 aren't really in conflict in this case.
>  R14 says an entity becomes a player by posting to the
> public forum; r3 says postings to the public forum
> made when the clock is off are recognized in sequence
> when the clock is on.  One isn't necessarily trying to
> override the other.
>
> It's perhaps worth noting that in r14 forfeitures
> overriding the clock being off had to be mentioned
> explicitly, and no such explicit mention has been made
> for new players.

Actually, new players can still join while the clock is off. Rule three 
states that "If the Clock is Off, any game-related actions *taken by 
players* are implemented/recognized in the order in which they were 
recieved when the Clock is turned On." The key bit is that it only 
applies to actions taken by players, not actions taken by External 
Forces who are not players. So a nonplayer External Force can join 
during a ClockStop, but all subsequent actions e takes will take effect 
when the Clock turns back on.

> > I make the following CFI:
> > {{
> > Statement:
> >
> > Rule 10 has no effect on the game, other than adding
> > an additional rule to break.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > }}
>
> Interestingly, Wonko's argument about actions comes
> into play here: r10 is the only thing that actually
> defines rules as things that have to be abided by.
> Without r10, all the rules could be smeared and BvS
> and bd would start another round of Calvinball.

R10 seems to be the thing that makes the game platonic (as opposed to 
pragmatic). In a platonic game, such as chess, illegal actions are 
considered
 never to have occurred - if you try to jump your pawn from E2 to F6, 
your opponent just says "you can't do that", the pawn gets put back, 
and the game continues as if it had never even been tried.

In a pragmatic game, such as soccer, illegal actions can happen, and 
penalties are provided for performing them - the rules say you can't 
touch the ball with your hands or tackle other players, but they lack 
the power to actually stop you from doing it; rather, provisions are 
made by which the other team will profit if you do.

R10 forces this game to be platonic, by declaring that all players 
*must* obey all rules; this implies that it is impossible to break a 
rule.

This is why objects such as the Cursed Sushi cannot work - any rule 
governing what one posts to the public forum must by necessity be 
pragmatic, as the rules lack the power to stop me from posting 
unsushified text to the forum. Likewise, society charters that attempt 
to restrict game actions must be pragmatic, as a society charter cannot 
actually stop me from, say, making a proposal; but it can punish me by 
expelling me from the society.

--
Wonko
Award Wonko a Win.
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