Re: [spoon-discuss] Response to SkArcher, spell it right guys

[bd <bdonlan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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On Sunday 21 December 2003 05:18 pm, Zarpint Jeremy Cook wrote:
> I agree. Rule 16 is still in effect, and it specifies that the Emergency
> Forum, since it has not been designated as Public, is Private.
>
> However, "If at any time there exist no public Fora, the Administrator
> shall take such steps as are necessary to designate one." -16.C
>
> This is nowhere overruled by r0. So, since it seems there is still some
> dispute about whether the Emergency Forum is Public, and there are no
> Public Fora now, it seems additional steps are necessary (by Wonko,
> established as the holder of the unique identifier "The Administrator" by
> r0).

spoon-business was never declared not a Public Forum, was it?

>
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, bd wrote:
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> > On Sunday 21 December 2003 04:59 pm, Zarpint Jeremy Cook wrote:
> > > The Admin during this SOE is Wonko. Eir exact words were:
> > > "if nobody objects
> > > to using bnomic-public as the emergency forum and having me be
> > > emergency admin by midnight today UTC (six O'Clock on the 15th for
> > > those in the states), we will assume that everyone agrees to it."
> >
> > r0 says:
> > 2. A Forum is established. The Procedure depends upon the availability of
> > a means for players and an Administrator to communicate (hereafter in
> > this rule known as "The Forum"). If a Forum does not exist or is not
> > available, players will establish one by contacting one another and
> > agreeing upon a new Forum. If a new Forum cannot be agreed upon, the Game
> > ends.
> >
> > 3. An Administrator is established. If an Administrator does not exist or
> > is not available, players will establish one from amongst themselves via
> > the Forum. If an Administrator cannot be agreed upon, the Game ends.
> >
> > While Wonko *may* be the Administrator (is the r0 one the same as the
> > rest of the game), neither e nor r0 specified a *Public* forum, merely a
> > forum for r0 uses.
> >
> > > Rule 16: "The Administrator may designate a Forum private only if it is
> > > not the sole extant public Forum."
> > >
> > > The other rules don't currently go hang during an SOE, actually. They
> > > couldn't, since they define a Ballot, for instance. And nowhere in r0
> > > does it state that the other rules don't apply.
> > >
> > > You're right: only the Admin (Wonko here) can designate a Forum. E did,
> > > and it had to have been public.
> > >
> > > > > By intervening time, I meant, e.g., declaring to join the game at
> > > > > time 0, voting at time 1,
> > > > > and the clock starting at time 2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Voting is affected by my status as a player.
> > > >
> > > > Your actions take place in the order they were recieved - I belive it
> > > > has (just recently) been accepted that the recieved timestamp of
> > > > elipsis.cx determines the order (see the recent disscussion caused in
> > > > Go by Ians machine having a clock that is slower than mine)
> > >
> > > The problem is rule 14, which says that one becomes a Player not when
> > > eir action is received, but when e posts a message to a Public Forum.
> > > And at all times, SOE or not, there needs to be at least one.
> > >
> > > BTW-clock starts 7 PM tonight, actually.
> > >
> > > Zarpint
> > >
> > >
> > > Zarpint
> > >
> > > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, SkArcher wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:30:13 -0500, Zarpint Jeremy Cook
> > > >
> > > > <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, SkArcher wrote:
> > > > >> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:50:44 -0500, Zarpint Jeremy Cook
> > > > >>
> > > > >> <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >> > Well, Bnomic-Public is a Forum. It is either Private or Public
> > > > >> > by rule 16 (unless that rule is overruled by rule 0). Actions
> > > > >> > can only be
> > > > >>
> > > > >> taken
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > in a Public Forum, also by rule 16 (unless that is overruled by
> > > > >> > rule
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 0).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > So the options are:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 1. It's Public (and I am a player)
> > > > >> > 2. It's Private (and I am not)
> > > > >> > 3. It's neither, because r0 overrules r16 saying that either 1
> > > > >> > or 2 is true.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The only textual support I see for any of this is that some
> > > > >> > actions
> > > > >>
> > > > >> are
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > taken
> > > > >> > in it, suggesting it is Public. Ideally we would want case 3,
> > > > >> > but I
> > > > >>
> > > > >> don't
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > see r0 saying that the Forum is Public, Private, or neither, so
> > > > >>
> > > > >> there's
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > no
> > > > >> > conflict in that respect AFAIK.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The best solution, I think:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 1. I will be recognized when the Clock comes on, and it doesn't
> > > > >> > affect the vote
> > > > >> > either way right now.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> you won't be, as you will have made no declaration in a Public
> > > > >> Fora. You need to post to spoon-business
> > > > >
> > > > > You didn't address my argument that the Emergency Forum is Public.
> > > > > Anyway, I will redeclare to spoon-business. (And I wouldn't let 9.8
> > > > > days go by without being officially recognized.) :)
> > > >
> > > > I don't think it is. Only the Admin (dave) can recognise a public
> > > > forum, and e must do so explicitly, which e has not. And even dave
> > > > must abide by the rules, which state that the clock goes off when an
> > > > SoE kicks in, after which point the rest of the ruleset can go hang
> > > > as far as r0 is concerned
> > > >
> > > > > By intervening time, I meant, e.g., declaring to join the game at
> > > > > time 0, voting at time 1,
> > > > > and the clock starting at time 2.
> > > > >
> > > > > Voting is affected by my status as a player.
> > > >
> > > > Your actions take place in the order they were recieved - I belive it
> > > > has (just recently) been accepted that the recieved timestamp of
> > > > elipsis.cx determines the order (see the recent disscussion caused in
> > > > Go by Ians machine having a clock that is slower than mine)
> > > >
> > > > > R0 exists to allow the game to continue when it otherwise couldn't,
> > > > > like the Admin being out of contact in this case.
> > > >
> > > > Agreed. But that doesn't make it a public forum. Hence why the r0
> > > > explicitly states it is there in case of hosting troubles, among
> > > > other things.
> > > >
> > > > SkArcher
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > spoon-discuss mailing list
> > > > spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss
> >
> > - --
> > bd
> > I need another lawyer like I need another hole in my head.
> > 		-- Fratianno
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> > _______________________________________________
> > spoon-discuss mailing list
> > spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
> > http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss

- -- 
bd
In Pocatello, Idaho, a law passed in 1912 provided that "The carrying
of concealed weapons is forbidden, unless same are exhibited to public view."
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