Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Veni, Vidi, Vacancy

["Baron von Skippy" <baronvonskippy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> > > My mistake. That last paragraph should have read:
> > > "Penguin" is never defined. There is no such thing as a Penguin. There
> > > is "the act of becoming a Penguin", which is defined to have exactly
> > > the same effects as "the act of becoming a Toad"; "the act of becoming
> > > a Toad" has the effect of causing the object taking the action to end
> > > up as a toad; therefore, "the act of becoming a Penguin", having the
> > > same effect on the object, also has the effect of causing the object
> > > taking the action to end up as a toad.
> >
> > Now we're back to the logical contradiction.  To say that a player 
> > "becomes a penguin" (as opposed to "begins to become a penguin", "has a 
> > predisposition to become a penguin", "takes some but not all of the 
> > necessary steps toward becoming a penguin") indicates a process that has 
> > as its end being a penguin, not a toad.  And since a penguin is in fact 
> > defined as something a player can become as the result of the triggering 
> > of an IID, as opposed to all the toad-making possibilities that define the 
> > existence of a toad, "penguin" and "toad" are two different things.
> >
> > So the rule that states where penguins come from regulates the existence 
> > of penguinship, even if all other effects of toadsmanship carry over.
>
> In the absence of a definition of a penguin, I believe that "becomes a 
> penguin" should be interpreted as a single event. The Baron does not 
> perform the action "become", targeting emself and the class Penguin; 
> rather, e performs the action "become a penguin", which is defined to be 
> equivalent to the action "become a toad". "Become a Penguin" is, IMHO, no 
> different from the action "Vote" or "Propose".
>
> If "penguin" were defined in any meaningful way in the ruleset, then I 
> would agree with you, citing the "Drink a glass of champagne" vs. "Drink" a 
> "Glass of Champagne" CFI; but if the object in question is not an object, I 
> don't think we can break this up into "become" a "penguin"; it is simply 
> "become a penguin". It's like your bit about hiring Contract Mining 
> Companies... didn't we decide that in your favor? Namely that, in the 
> absence of any sort of mining contractors, the statement that players could 
> "pay mining contractors to mine things" did not first require that mining 
> contractors be objects?
-I remember back when we had the occasional intelligent discussion in 
here... on a topic which actually mattered for sonething... anyway, you two 
are playing havoc with my morphic resonance field, and I don't feel like 
ending up with flippers and webbed feet permanently from the coinfusion, so 
if you could maybe resolve this...?-

[[BvS]]

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