Re: [spoon-discuss] Future of the Grid

["Orc In A Spacesuit" <orcinaspacesuit@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: Daniel Lepage <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Once the Grid has become more developed, I think the victory condition 
> should change from simply acquiring points to some grid-based goal.

I would prefer it to be both.  Win by points, or win by grid actions.  I 
actually have a prop floating around in my head that would create a group of 
varied winning conditions, each requiring a lot of grid work.  I need to 
finish this durn Race-enabling prop first...  Well, at least I got most of 
the functionality working.  I'm kicking myself over the fact I'm trying to 
make all the stats equally useful at the same time, requiring redoing a 
large part of the ruleset (movement, carrying, almost anything that results 
in a loss of Points or HP) adding a few new rules (to handle things like 
Weapons and Mass), and give all the different races their own little cool 
features.  Arrg, I'm getting off topic.

> I think that players in and of themselves should have some attributes, such 
> as Stats and the Force, which aren't affected by said resets.

Stats are permanantly set, or at least the base values are.  All that we can 
do is get modifiers to them, through equipment and whatever else kind of 
crazy stuff we decide to implement.

However, I think that everything that is game affecting in any big way 
should be balanced out after each win either by destruction (current, if not 
fully implemented, method), or by balancing, adjusting what everyone has to 
put everyone on equal footing.  If this means putting all but 1000 BNS worth 
of a player's structures up for auction, and giving those with less than 
that amount free stuff up to that amount, then I think that's what should be 
done.

> I think that abilities and attributes inherent to players shouldn't be 
> wiped at the Apocalypse; this would include things like Force level, race, 
> stats, etc. Thus, a player would be able to improve their own personal 
> skills in an RPG-like fashion regardless of how often the grid blew up.

Again, I think each Win should result in a complete rebalancing.  While 
RPG-style play is interesting, and perhaps we could implement some way for 
people to keep their stuff (Maybe assign everything a BNS value; Each player 
gets to keep 5000 BNS worth of "stuff" of their choosing, whether it be 
items, skills, improvements, gnomes, or whatever; and give those with less 
than that amount the ability to "cash in", buying various things, maybe 
including some not for sale normally, but nothing truly rare or unique.)

> The victory condition, however, should be such that while it might help me 
> a bit to be able to pick up things from a distance and blow up big rocks, 
> it would be impossible for me to win the game without rebuilding the parts 
> that get destroyed every wipe. Sort of like the NPCs in WarCraft III, for 
> those of you who've played that - they're tough and nasty, and very useful 
> to have around, but they don't do you any good unless you've got a lot of 
> troops to back them up.

Heh, yes the Mercinaries are something nice, and can't do much on their own. 
 But two otherwise equal players, one's got an Ogre Lord; who's gonna win?
And although I'm not trying to turn this into Warcraft III or anything, but 
they truly get a "grid reset" after a win.  With all the comparisons 
recently, I just had to throw that in.

> I'm thinking that perhaps every player with fewer than 4 owned lands ought 
> to be able to claim any unclaimed 2x2 block of the Grid for free, and 
> immediately put a little 2x2 fortress on it, also for free. That would 
> generally happen after each reset (so one's base location would change 
> every reset), but it would also allow new players to jump straight into the 
> game.

I like it.  Would need balancing.  Like perhaps that "buy your stuff back 
with this 5000BNS credit we're giving you" thing I said earlier.  Let you 
keep your stuff if you had a lot, but give other players something to 
compensate with.

> This would also make it harder for people to randomly win out of the blue; 
> while points and charm get tossed around like candy, it'll be somewhat 
> harder to find a loophole that lets you take all of the Grid.

I think that we're actually getting down to a pretty stable ruleset.  Though 
we could still use a standardization of a lot of things (uberprop... arg, 
I'm never gonna get to finish that).  Anyway, I think we may be getting down 
a bit on the random tossing.

Now, for a quote from BvS, since it's on topic:
> -I hold that there are two games going here. There is the points game and 
> the Grid game. The Grid game cannot be won. The points game can. So... 
> someone wins the points game. Good for them. Why does that mean anything to 
> the Grid game? Can someone (probably several someones, knowing this game) 
> explain that to me / tell me I'm bloody brilliant?-

I hold that they are interrelated parts of a very interconnected game.  
Points can be won and lost on the Grid, hands can affect Voting, and so 
forth.  And heck, originally all the Grid did was have Football going (+20 
points to the winners), and have Shiny/Scary things (+ or - some points).  
And all those gnome purchases, which affect grid-side things garner points 
for vSOI members (although that's most of the players).  And then there's 
things like PGGP's, Jedi Mind Tricks, and on and on and on...  They aren't 
two distinct games, but parts of a bigger one.
In addition, about half the wins that have gone through /have/ been 
Grid-related; my recent win was all about Gnomes, which are Grid Objects.  
Wonko's Gnome-Trash Can win was Gnomes and Trash Cans, both Grid Objects.

In conclusion, I think both games should be winnable, or, more accurately, 
there should be multiple win conditions, all hard to reach and thwartable 
with a lot of effort, and they combined should use up just about all the 
aspects of the game.

Orc in a Spacesuit

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