Orc In A Spacesuit on 21 Nov 2002 13:45:02 -0000


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Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Scam 1, Take 2 

From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On 11/21/02 at 3:23 AM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote:

>>From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>On 11/21/02 at 2:44 AM Orc In A Spacesuit wrote:
>>
>> >Ok, my first attempted scam failed because I forgot about the Default
>> >Case,
>> >which limits only players, and was not applicable to Glotmorf's CFI.
>> >
>> >Now, I believe that Glotmorf's CFI is FALSE, primarily because of this
>> >reason:
>> >His society tried to change the rules, and rule changes are only
>>permitted
>> >as /described/ by the rules, and nowhere is it /described/ that
>societies
>> >may change the rules.
>> >
>> >Another part of his argument was that r18 says "whatever is not
>>prohibited
>> >or regulated by the Ruleset is permitted and unregulated".  However,
>that
>> >doesn't apply to rule changes, as stated at the beginning of that
>>sentence.
>> >
>> >Now then, I'm gonna do something that gets around all that:
>> >
>> >ACTIONS:
>> >OrcTech changes its own Point Balance to 3000.
>> >OrcTech gives me 1500 points.
>> >
>> >How does this work, when I claim Glotmorf's takeover AND my earlier scam 
>> >didn't?
>> >A: This is not a rule change.
>> >B: The default case applies only to societies.
>>
>>Sorry. What gets you this time is Rule 18. Since Wonko's version of the 
>>society rule dictates mechanisms for raising and lowering societies'
>point
>>balances, that amounts to regulating the process of modifying a society's 
>>point balance.  Therefore, only those mechanisms for changing the point
>>balance are permitted.  So your society can't set its own point balance.
>>
>>This, or at least the reasoning behind its failure, is a variant of the
>>champagne glass scam, and fails for the same reason.
>
>Wonko's rule dictates how the Point Balance of societies is automatically
>changed as the result of things happening in the game, but it says
>absolutly
>nothing about anybody or anything actually going out and changing it
>emslelves. What prevents me from changing it is the default case, but the 
>default case does not stop societies.  So absolutly nothing prohibits or
>regulates a society changing the point balance of a society.
>
>By the way, societies can do pretty much anything now, with some notable
>exceptions like changing the rules. I consider it all pointless, however, 
>as my prop will patch up the hole ("Societies may only take actions as
>explicitly permitted by the rules"), then someone can make a "Reset all
>the
>pointless damage that people decide to wreck by using the loophole before
>it
>was fixed, and then repeal the 'players may not win' rule".
>
>So y'all can go nuts, but you can't win. I suggest you don't go overboard 
>with the damage, so we can patch it up easily.
If Wonko's rule regulates how the point balance is raised or lowered, then Wonko's rule regulates how the point balance is changed. If there is no provision for changing it some other way, then it's not allowed, since Wonko's regulating of how the point balance is changed keeps it from being changed some other, unregulated way. Sorry. 

						Glotmorf
Wonko's rule regulates how it 'is changed'. It does not regulate the Action 'change Point Balance'. The difference here is the Action and the already defined Process. 

Respectfully,
Orc In A Spacesuit

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