[spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] NWEEK 26 BALLOT

["Orc In A Spacesuit" <orcinaspacesuit@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> From: "Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Yes.  I still think Luigi should collect interest in the same nweek as the 
> loan, but I don't believe that strongly enough to interfere with this.

Funny how you voted differently than last time.  Oh well, your vote.  Do you 
really fear the plans I announced that much?

> >Proposal 1189/1: Society fixes (Orc In a Spacesuit)
>
> No.  Neither of the items in this proposal require a proposal to fix them.

Then how will The Secret Mookies work again?  The charter currently tries to 
give Greg a power (to change the charter), but charters do not have the 
force of rule.  If the charter instead said the society itself would change 
its charter when Greg said so, then it would work.  Just wording changes.  
As for WBE's extra positions, so be it.  You complained, I responded.  Oh 
well.

> >Proposal 1191/0: You wanna lurk? Here ya go. (Orc In a Spacesuit)
>
> No.  Unnecessarily complicated; it would be simpler to let players declare 
> the length of their On Leave period when they go On Leave.  Possibly 
> illegal; players can take no action while they are On Leave, though if this 
> section is added after the existing text it takes priority for the time 
> being.  Self-contradictory; it sets a player as both On Leave and On Forced 
> Leave, when On Forced Leave is, as stated earlier in the rule, identical to 
> being On Leave.

Thought about this, but Rob wants to stay Off Leave.  Just trying to be 
helpful.  It's not illegal.  As for self-contradictory, that resolves itself 
quite nicely.

> >Proposal 1192/0: Giving Societies Their Dues (Glotmorf)
>
> Yes.  Under the current rule, societies can only possess things they have 
> properties associated with; therefore, this doesn't allow any automated 
> transfers that would not be permitted as manual transfers.  And it doesn't 
> permit automated transfers at all unless the members consent to their 
> charter containing a provision for it, so there's no exploitation.

Pardon my French, but WHAT THE #@%$ does that explaination have to do with 
the fact that this prop would allow players to VOLUNTARILY GET RID OF 
UNWANTED ATTRIBUTES, LIKE CURSES?  This prop is bad!

> >Proposal 1197/2: The Bigger They Are, The Mucher They Cost (Glotmorf)
>
> Yes.  Very complex changes should take more effort.  Extremely complex 
> changes should get some grass-roots support before they even come to light.

Complex changes by their very definition take lots of effort already.  And 
number of rules changed is no measure of complexity; except for an 
unneccessary trimming of vSOI rules, my entire Societies prop changed only 
2.  As for grass-roots support, that's nonsense in this context, as 
grass-roots refers to the general public who don't have much individual say. 
 The players are the public, and each get equal opportunities to vote.  
Complex props still need at least half of the people to understand and 
accept them.  And this is besides the fact you make societies required for 
some props, while making other props impossible.

> >Proposal 1198/1: More Raw Materials (Orc In a Spacesuit)
>
> No.  I'd rather see a simple, generic raw material system, such as exists 
> now, made workable first, and proven useful or not, before making it more 
> complex.  It's been three nweeks since raw materials were implemented, and, 
> due to various delaying factors, we still haven't seen them actually used.

You mean the one that has several different names for raw materials?  And 
besides, the one that exists now doesn't; even before my societies prop it 
wasn't perfect.  This system is still simple (just adds a few numbers), and 
doesn't introduce any wild crazy stuff, like societies.  It just makes new 
things that are similar to points.  It's made workable, and we can prove it 
works now.  Rather than have a small system be expanded beyond its design in 
the future, let's have a large yet straightforward system that can easily be 
used for a multitude of purposes.

But hey, if that's how you feel, go ahead.

> >Proposal 1199/0: Automation (Orc In a Spacesuit)
> Shelve.  This closely resembles what I originally called a "pseudocode 
> action," which is at the moment on the LOGAS.

Yes, quite.  But other than that, do you have objections? (Other than the 
few words I left out).  If this isn't something that a lot of people like, 
then I'll just toss it.

> >Proposal 1203/2: Patching Up Societies (Wonko)
>
> Yes.  It's better than what's currently in existence.

What's currently in existence works, minus BNS.  I already outlined the 
fixes for the current version to make everything extra smooth.  This prop 
introduces a host of new problems, which I have outlined elsewhere.

Respectfully,
Orc In A Spacesuit

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