Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] It

["Baron von Skippy" <baronvonskippy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> > > > > > > > > > On the grounds that, "It dispenses tea or coffee!" (r1148/0, 
> > > > > > > > > > __IT__), I get
> > > > > > > > > > a hundred cups of Tea from It. I drink them all, setting my BAC to 
> > > > > > > > > > -100 and
> > > > > > > > > > my style to 100d4.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I buy the style attribute "Wired".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well, it dispenses tea or coffee, but I have a plethora of reasons 
> > > > > > > > > why that didn't work:
> > > > > > > > > It does dispense, but when?  Who says it dispenses 100 right now?
> > > > > > > > > Where does the dispensed tea go?  Why should you be able to get 
> > > > > > > > > some?
> > > > > > > > > No cups.  You need to drink a Cup of Tea, and I don't see any cups.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ok, so a plethora appears to be 3.  I had more, but that about 
> > > > > > > > > covers it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Orc In A Spacesuit
> > > > > > > > > sticks his mouth on It's spout, and dispenses away
> > > > > > > > -Permissability of the unprohibited, my good green sir.-
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >                                                   [[BvS]]
> > > > > > > Rule 393/0, __The All-Important Default Case__, states:
> > > > > > > "Players may not change the game state. This rule defers to all other 
> > > > > > > rules."
> > > > > > > I don't see the It rule allowing anybody to get a cup of coffee.  It 
> > > > > > > just dispenses them.  Transfering them to your possession would be a 
> > > > > > > change of game state.  And still, no cups.  Just rivers of tea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I know why you were Knight of the Gnome Scam.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Orc in a Spacesuit
> > > > > > > mixes tea and coffee, and drinks it.
> > > > > > -Because I wrote the pricing rules that let Wonko buy Gnomes for less 
> > > > > > than he was ditching them for? What does THAT have to do with this?
> > > > > > By the way:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rule 18/2
> > > > > > Permissibility of the Unprohibited
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With the exception of Rule Changes whatever is not prohibited or 
> > > > > > regulated by the Ruleset is permitted and unregulated.-
> > > > >
> > > > > I would say that changes to the game state are regulated by the 
> > > > > ruleset.  And adding a cup of coffee or tea to your inventory is a 
> > > > > change to the game state.  Especially if there is no 'cup' anywhere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Orc In A Spacesuit
> > > > > gargles some tea
> > > > -Champagne, then. Anyone remember how you could (maybe you still can; I 
> > > > don't suppose that was important enough to fix) simply grab Champagne 
> > > > from the air and drink of it? Those machines you see sometimes that 
> > > > dispense bad coffee into styrofoam cups, they "dispense coffee." One 
> > > > does not need to add to most listeners that they also give over a cup. 
> > > > The "It" rule says nowhere "It doesn't give you cups!" so I assume that 
> > > > it does, via the Permissibility rule.-
> > >
> > > Must we do this?

> > > A. You could never create new Glasses of Champagne, the CFI's stated 
> > > such.
> > -You sure? I thought it was legal the time uin did it. Feh, this is 
> > slightly different enough for me to ignore your reasoning until a CFI 
> > backs it.-
> I belive the CFI 688 is the applicable one.
-Ah. Still, though, this is a different situation.-

> > > B. Yes, those machines may dispense Coffee, but you have to actually 
> > > bring the cup there.  And even if you could somehow summon a cup, and got 
> > > It to dispense coffee into the Cup, it would be a "Cup" that "has Coffee 
> > > in it", and not a Cup of Coffee.
> > -Who says I don't have a cup? I'm carrying about 30 alcoholic beverages. I 
> > /have/ cups. And forgive my presumption, but a cup with coffee in it is a 
> > Cup of Coffee according to standard usage of English.-
> So how does a Cup of Whatever turn into a Cup of Coffee?  That's a change 
> of game state, which is regulated.  Just because It dispenses coffee 
> somewhere doesn't change a Cup.  Heck, with that reasoning, I could turn 
> all your Cups into Cups of Sheep Gnomes.
-I could take one of my containers, drain it, then refill it. You can't 
alter things in my posession; that's illegal.-

> > > C. No rule says that It does give you cups, or has cups, or create cups.
> > -No rule says It doesn't.-
> No rule says it does.  No rule says "Orc in a Spacesuit doesn't win the 
> game", or "BvS doesn't give all eir points to Wonko", but these don't 
> happen just because no rule says it doesn't happen.  I'm not gonna bother 
> with the details here.
-Those are all changes in the gamestate. Assuming that Coffee comes in cups 
isn't, espcially when Coffee is /defined/ to have a natural unit of Cups.-

> > > D. Repeat after me:  When you AssUMe, you make an Ass out of U and Me.
> > -Okay. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and... should be I. 
> > Here's one. When I assume, your As can Su Me. I'll make assumptions 
> > whenever I want.-
-Whee... stubbornness point for the Baron!-

> > > E. Yes, It dispenses coffee, but why should you get any of it?  And why 
> > > should it have dispensed enough for even one cup by now?
> > -Because:
> > 1) "It has been featured in Star Trek and can heat a small house"
> > I take this to mean it's a replicator which can make enough coffee to warm 
> > my house up nicely.
> Well, you taking it that way doesn't mean jack.
-And your opinion has more merit?-

> > 2) "It's a small Brazillian child trained in the art of satisfaction!"
> > They grow coffee in Brazil, and I would be satisfied if I had a lot of 
> > coffee.
> And?
-Therefore, the small Brazilian child gives me coffee. I'd also be satisfied 
if you yielded this argument. Wonder how he'll deal with that...-

> > 3) "It's a patented method of running around in circles witout getting 
> > dizzy."
> > Well, caffine makes you hyper...
> So?
-So? I drink a lot of coffee, I get hyper. I get hyper, I run in circles. If 
you run in biig enough circles, you don't get dizzy. Therefore, coffee is 
the patented method mentioned.-

> > I think my point is made...
> I don't.
-That much is clear.-

> > oh, and I want to note that I voted against It becasue It is so damn 
> > ambiguous...-
> I went through it all for anything applicable to the game before I voted 
> yes.  I voted yes to get the Contrary Vote point, and get 1/2 the points if 
> it actually passed.
-But as we can see, it has LOTS of applicable pieces, if you interpret them 
right.-

> > > F. Can you guys give this up and give Dave a break?
> > -Us guys being you and me? Okay, give it up.-
> You guys being bd and you and Wonko.
-bd's been pretty quiet so far. You, however...-

> Ok, now let's end this sillyness.
-I haven't been silly in days.-
> Orc In A Spacesuit

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