[spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] More Stuff: Justice (sort of...)

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth David E. Smith,

> 404notfound is recused from CFI 1122.
> bd is recused from CFI 1106.
> Wonko is recused from CFI 1105.
> bd is recused from CFI 1103.
> The Voice is recused from CFI 1099.
> Orc is recused from CFI 1098.
> 404notfound is recused from CFI 1086
> bd is recused from CFI 1054.
> 
> All of the above are placed on the List of Misbehaving Judges.
> 
> This leaves only the following players eligible to be judges:
> 
> Athena, Glotmorf, Iain, Naath, Rob
> 
> Iain, Naath, and Rob seem to be around only irregularly, and Glotmorf is
> either the plaintiff or defendant in a rather large percentage of CFIs. ;)
> 
> Some kind of judicial reform is sorely needed. (Are you folks SURE you
> don't want at least a few elements of Imperial Nomic? ;)
> 
> In the meantime, all of the above CFIs are assigned to Athena, except for
> 1054 and 1122, which are assigned to Glotmorf (since Athena's the
> plaintiff for those two). I encourage Athena to rule REFUSED on most of
> 'em, since they're by-and-large no longer relevant.

Holy Bleep! That "nothing exists" CFI was assigned to *me*?

Well, I could tell you how I would of judged it... and give my two cents on
all the others. Which I'll do, of course, because if I don't, then I'll just
end up having to give my opinion later when the CFI's go funky. So:

> 404notfound is recused from CFI 1122.
This one's false - the default case defers to the Society rule, which states
that members of a society must adhere to the society's charter. Besides the
default case is moot - the charter didn't change the gamestate, it just
forced it's members to change the gamestate, and they were legally empowered
to do so.

> bd is recused from CFI 1106.
False - glotmorf claims that r15 lets non-players vote iff a rule with
higher Chutzpah permits it. It actually says they may vote if and only if a
higher Chutzpah rule *explicitly* permits it. I submit, then, that this
implies that rule 15 supersedes higher Chutzpah rules unless they
*explicitly* state that a non-player may vote, which r578 does not.

I also don't agree that r578 actually has Chutzpah 2; see below.

> Wonko is recused from CFI 1105.
This one makes no sense, as far as I can tell. Glotmorf seems to be claiming
that if two objects violate r2, the only way to deal with them would be to
destroy them. It seems to me that if this were the case, then I could, by
creating a new society called, "Glotmorf", destroy both my society and
Glotmorf emself. That doesn't make sense. So I would have ruled False, had I
known this was mine.

> bd is recused from CFI 1103.
This one's hard to say; I'd rule false, but whether "(Chutzpah 2)" appearing
in a rule is enough to establish that rule's Chutzpah as 2 is, in the end, a
matter of interpretation. I'm just not sure that mention of a number is
enough to make it law.

> The Voice is recused from CFI 1099.

This one's true. I'm not going to argue about it, 'cause I already have.

> Orc is recused from CFI 1098.

This one gets funky 'cause it's validity may have changed. Depending on your
interpretation of past events, I may or may not have been Bastard then. But
now I am. Go figure.

> 404notfound is recused from CFI 1086

This one I admitted that I couldn't vote, eventually. But then the admin
counted my votes anyway, and then the Statute of Limitations kicked in. Go
us.

> bd is recused from CFI 1054.
This one's too old to be worthwhile, and the victory of either me or BvS
means that the changes were wiped anyway. Although I suppose perhaps I have
thousands of Destruction points as a result... and I couldn't have won if
this worked, 'cause nobody had enough points.... Damn.





You know what might be helpful? A Ministry of Justice, who'd be responsible
for telling people (emailing them personally, perhaps) that they had CFI's
pending... 'cause I'll bet Voice, bd and Orc had the same problem.

I do recall that some Nomic (Nomic World, I think) evolved a system
involving a pool of Judges, where players could enlist themselves as
specialists in certain rules, so people who made a study of, say, voting
rules would be more likely to recieve voting CFI's, etc. Of course, Nomic
World had over thirty players, so I guess they had more players to choose
from, but I wonder if we could get some similar system set up here...

Or if we could recruit 20 more players, that would also work. But then we'd
probably need a hell of a lot more Ministerial stuff, to keep Dave from
getting buried in player actions... but we'd have the manpower to do it.


Any thoughts?

-- 
Wonko

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