Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Here's how you create a society...

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 10/3/02 at 7:39 PM Wonko wrote:

>Quoth Glotmorf,
>
>> Heh.  I maintain that neither of your possibilities is the case.  The
>first
>> certainly isn't, because a society charter and a rule are defined
>separately,
>> and there's nothing that says something can be both; therefore, per the
>> default case, it can't be both.
>
>The default case has, get this, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS
>WHATSOEVER! Wow! What a surprise! Who would have thought that just because
>a
>rule is totally irrelevant to the situation, it wouldn't matter to the
>situation? Gee whiz!
>
>Seriously, Glotmorf, this is ridiculous. The Default case stops me from
>changing the gamestate without a rule's permission. But I'm not even the
>one
>changing the gamestate - the ruleset is, by implementing my proposal. And,
>since the ruleset is giving me permission (that's the part where it says
>that the actions in the proposal take effect), then even if it WERE me who
>was doing the changing, it would STILL be legal.
>
>> That leaves the second.  The society rule relates to your
>society-declaring
>> rule, because a society, as part of its definition in the society rule,
>has to
>> have a charter; since the rule wasn't the charter, and since nothing
>else was
>> the charter, the charter didn't exist, per the society rule, which takes
>> precedence over your rule via rule number.  Therefore, at the time you
>were
>> named to be the Boss of the society, the society didn't exist.
>
>The rule WAS the charter. What's so hard to understand about that? So far,
>every complaint you've made seems to hinge on the belief that WBE didn't
>have a Charter, but you have yet to give any substantial, or, for that
>matter, insubstantial evidence that this is the case. A rule can be a
>charter, and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

What's so hard to understand about the rule being the charter is that the rule can't be the charter.  A society's charter is defined as a game document, in the collection of society charters.  A rule is defined, such as it is, as being an item that is part of the ruleset.  Nothing says a rule is a game document.  Nothing says a rule is in the collection of society charters.  Nothing says a charter is in the ruleset.  To put a charter in the ruleset, or to put a rule in the collection of society charters, is a gamestate change that isn't defined in the rules, and therefore can't happen, per the default case.  And there's nothing that defines a rule as being the same as a charter, or that permits a rule to be the same as a charter.

Therefore, the rule is not a charter.

						Glotmorf


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