Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Here's how you create a society...

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 10/3/02 at 4:49 PM Wonko wrote:

>Quoth Glotmorf,
>
>> On 10/2/02 at 4:04 PM Wonko wrote:
>>
>>> Quoth Glotmorf,
>>>
>>>> I create the following society:
>>>>
>>>> {{ _WBE_
>>>> }}
>>>
>>> Say, do you know what's really funny? Even if your interpretation is
>valid,
>>> my proposal is now legal. Because it's not creating a new society, then,
>>> just altering an existing one (i.e., the one you just made). And, as
>part
>>> of
>>> my proposal, I become the Wealthy Bastard.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Glotmorf.
>>
>> Nope, sorry.  Your proposal gets resolved as part of nweek 23, in which
>the
>> society wasn't created; therefore there's no WBE for you to be made the
>> wealthy bastard of.
>>
>> Since, according to Mr. A, nweek 23 is now over and nweek 24 has not yet
>> begun, my creation of a society hasn't happened yet, and won't until
>some time
>> after you've failed to become the wealthy bastard of a nonexistent
>society.
>
>How is it nonexistent? I still don't accept your argument that proposals
>cannot create societies except as mentioned in your little societies rule.
>
>But regardless of that, the proposal still works. Here's why:
>
>Either the rule in the proposal is the proposed Charter for a society, or
>it
>is not.
>
>If it is, then the proposal was perfectly in accordance with your society
>rule, and WBE is created, with me as the Bastard.
>
>If it isn't, then, since it has already been decided by a couple CFIs that
>effects of rules created by a proposal are not effects of the proposal
>itself, the proposal is not creating a society, and your society rule does
>not in any way relate to it.
>
>I maintain that the first of these is the case. The rules say that the
>Charter of a Society is the thing that contains the society's public rules.
>In this case, it happens to be a rule. That's not a conflict.
>
>But even if you refuse to admit that, you still don't have a case, as if
>the
>first is not true, then the second is, and I'm *STILL* the Wealthy Bastard.
>
>And your societal creation is illegal, because all game entities must have
>uniquely identifying names, and the name Wealthy Bastard Enterprises is
>already taken.

Heh.  I maintain that neither of your possibilities is the case.  The first certainly isn't, because a society charter and a rule are defined separately, and there's nothing that says something can be both; therefore, per the default case, it can't be both.

That leaves the second.  The society rule relates to your society-declaring rule, because a society, as part of its definition in the society rule, has to have a charter; since the rule wasn't the charter, and since nothing else was the charter, the charter didn't exist, per the society rule, which takes precedence over your rule via rule number.  Therefore, at the time you were named to be the Boss of the society, the society didn't exist.

And since it didn't exist at the end of nweek 23, my society-creating action, at the beginning of nweek 24, was perfectly legal.

						Glotmorf




_______________________________________________
spoon-discuss mailing list
spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss