Re: [spoon-discuss] A proposal for next nweek?

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 9/30/02 at 5:51 PM Wonko wrote:

>Quoth Glotmorf,
>
>> On 9/30/02 at 12:56 PM Baron von Skippy wrote:
>>
>>>>> *It must not be able to make proposals
>>>>
>>>> This I don't see.  Yes, three people who can get together for the
>purpose
>>>> of manufacturing can form a separate club for the purpose of block
>voting
>>>> and profit sharing, but...why?
>>>
>>> -Sounds to me like it's partly because that's not what a Corporation is
>>> going to do in his vision, partly that vSOI and WBE already can't make
>>> proposals and never will, but are natural choices for Corportionhood,
>and
>>> maybe partly because M-Tek can, but that's just a guess.-
>>
>> vSOI could make proposals if you wanted it to. All you'd have to do is
>change
>> the charter.
>>
>> WBE can't do anything, because it doesn't exist.  The proposal that's
>trying
>> to create it is illegal, because it's not creating a society the way the
>rules
>> say a proposal can create a society.  Wonko's "proposals change the game
>> state" argument doesn't work, because r10 says proposals can't
>temporarily
>> circumvent the rules.
>
>I'm not circumventing the rules. One rule says that I'm allowed to make
>whatever proposals I want. Another says I'm allowed to propose to create
>societies. There's no conflict there - the two rules agree that I can
>propose societies in the one method, and one of the two doesn't care if I
>do
>it any other way.

There is no rule that says you can make whatever proposals you want.  There is a rule that says you can make proposals, and another rule that says that if you're gonna use a proposal to make a society you declare its charter.  You didn't declare a charter for it; you declared a rule that says it exists.  Therefore the society being created can't have been created that way.

>I also don't see how my proposal isn't covered by G.1. It makes a society,
>with a Charter. Nowhere does it say that the Charter cannot also be a
>formal
>rule.
>
>>>>> *It must have resource pools of BNS, Points, and Units
>>>>
>>>> And provisions for distributing same to members.
>>>
>>> -Why all three, Wonko? vSOI works with points, WBE with BNS, what if
>M-Tek
>>> took Units and we didn't need to all have everything?-
>>
>> WBE as it's proposed uses units too...it has to have them in order to
>> construct its stuff.  Even if M-Tek didn't need points to build things,
>if it
>> ever wanted to sell what it built it'd need a pool of either points or
>BNS to
>> receive payment.
>
>All three are good because various products ought to cost different

Yes, but are all three truly necessary?  In my opinion, if someone creates a Corporation, then gives it a Technology it can't produce, or charges a price it can't collect, that's eir problem.

>>>>> *It must have a Minister associated with it who keeps track of its
>>>>> attributes
>>>>
>>>> This'll be a pain in the butt, unless you're thinking of a Minister of
>>>> Societies.  Otherwise, if I form a club out of the blue, and add a
>couple
>>>> members, I can't go corporate unless I somehow find a minister first?
>>>
>>> -Ditto. Wonko, this will suck. Unless you expand that: a Corporation
>must
>>> have a Minister defined by the Charter who also holds more power in the
>>> company and is not paid a salary. It's still not great, but it's a
>little
>>> better.-
>>
>> Possibly a Market Minister, or a Corporation Minister.  I take it back
>about
>> the Minister of Societies...Sorry, Dave, but I think charter changes
>should
>> stick with you.
>
>I wasn't actually thinking of Charter changes... I meant something like the
>WBE Wealthy Bastard, who's responsible for keeping track of how many
>points,
>BNS, Raw Materials,etc. the corporation has. The Corporate Minister for
>each
>corporation would, I assume, be the equivalent of a CEO or Prez, although
>it
>would be possible for a company to designate someone as a sort of Scribe to
>track these things.

The problem is with the term "Minister", which already has rather specific meaning.  If you mean a club has to have, say, a designated spokesperson, that's not a bad idea in general.  I might propose some standard methods for that.

If, on the other hand, you mean an independent auditor, how about we go with one for everyone for now, unless and until we have a dremload of corporations?

						Glotmorf


_______________________________________________
spoon-discuss mailing list
spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss