Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: CFI 727 Appeal

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Glotmorf,

> On 5/24/02 at 11:12 PM Wonko wrote:
> 
>> Quoth Glotmorf,
>> 
>>> On 5/24/02 at 9:05 AM Wonko wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I appeal this CFJ on the grounds that there is a rule saying that Iain
>> may
>>>> not join M-Tek in this way. It's the Default Case, which says that
>> players
>>>> may not change the gamestate.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Wonko
>>> 
>>> As a member of the Upper House, I rule FALSE on CFI 727.
>>> 
>>> For analysis I reiterate an earlier statement regarding this CFI:
>>> 
>>> The Default Case, Rule 393, says it defers to all other rules.
>>> 
>>> M-Tek was created via a Charter Prop.
>>> 
>>> Rule 631 says Charter Props create Clubs.
>>> 
>>> Rule 578 says a Club is a Society.
>>> 
>>> Rule 578 says entities may be members of Societies.
>>> 
>>> Iain, by accepting my invitation, declared emself to be a member of
>> M-Tek.
>>> 
>>> Rule 631 says members of a Club must obey the rules stated in the Club's
>>> Charter.
>>> 
>>> The Club Charter for M-Tek dictates the circumstances whereby a person
>> can
>>> become a member.
>>> 
>>> The circumstances under which Iain declared emself a member is
>> consistent with
>>> the circumstances outlined in the M-Tek Club Charter.
>>> 
>>> Therefore, Iain is obeying the rules in the M-Tek Club Charter that
>> determine
>>> whether or not e is a member.
>>> 
>>> Since Rule 393 defers to all other rules, it defers to Rules 578 and
>> 631, in
>>> conjunction with the M-Tek Charter.
>> 
>> Ah. Then the fact that the LOOP Charter permits me to take points from the
>> Gremlin Fund also makes it legal, via the same logic, no?
>> 
>> <mrburns> Excellent. </mrburns>
>> 
>> --
>> Wonko
> 
> Sure the LOOP Charter permits you to rob the Gremlin Fund.  And while we're on
> the subject, you certainly have my permission to break into Fort Knox and
> steal a gold brick for a paperweight.
> 
> In either case, it doesn't make it legal for you to do so.
> 
> Besides, the LOOP Charter as I understand it doesn't explicitly permit you to
> rob the Gremlin Fund.  It only permits you to oust members by robbing the
> Gremlin Fund.  That doesn't say robbing the Gremlin Fund is legal.  By the
> way, you can get a job as my towel boy for $50,000 a year if you go clean out
> your local Riggs National Bank and give me the money.  Under no other
> circumstances will I hire you.  Is the robbery legal yet?

I think you're making the mistake of confusing Nomic laws with Real World
laws. There's a very fundamental difference - laws in the real world are
governed by what the real word is; laws in the Nomic world *define* what the
Nomic world is.

In the real world, if a law says, 'Any person may make themself president of
the world by picking up Mt. Everest and balancing it on their nose', that
does not mean that I suddenly am strong enough to rip a mountain off the
ground and put it on my nose. The laws of Physics, which take precedence
over human laws, dictate that it is impossible. Nomic, however, is
unburdened by the laws of Physics. There is no such thing as an action that
is 'impossible', merely actions that are 'illegal'. If a rule says, 'Any
person may make themself president of the world by picking up Mt. Everest
and balancing it on their nose', then I can, for the purposes of the game,
perform the game action of picking up Mt. Everest and balancing it on my
nose.

If there were a law that dictated that I could make myself president by
picking up a mountain, and the laws of Physics were temporarily disabled to
allow me to do so, then the action would be legal.

There are no limits on what I 'could' or 'could not' do. There are only
things I 'am' or 'am not' permitted to do.

-- 
Wonko