Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: M-Tek

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Glotmorf,

> A Charter Prop creates a Club, yes, but it also "must contain a charter that
> defines the Club."  Which means the nature of the Club being created is
> defined in the Charter Prop.  The Club, once it exists, has as its properties
> the nature listed in the Charter Prop.  So the Charter is another change to
> the gamestate that the Charter Prop makes, or part of the same one, depending
> on your point of view.

It must contain a Club-Defining charter; however, nowhere does it say that
that Charter is ever used for anything. The best interpretation I can come
up for that is that, while the Club is free to have that Charter, it's not
part of the ruleset. So you've created a Charter for a club called M-Tek,
but it's not a rule. Meanwhile, you never actually called for the existence
of the Club, you just wrote its Charter. So yet again, there is no M-Tek.

> Addressing your other message...With the exception of things like the Upper
> House, Clubs exist primarily for the purposes of their members; if
> participation in a Club resulted in no change to the gamestate, the members of
> a Club would not need the permission of the Players for the Club to exist.
> However, since Clubs can submit Club Props, which both exploit and affect its
> members' attributes, I figured the main body of Players should have a chance
> to deny a Club's existence if it was truly necessary to do so.  In most cases
> it should never be necessary, because, while the results of Club Props affect
> players, the effects are still confined to the Club members on a relatively
> zero-sum basis.

So you're saying that you don't want there to be many clubs except generic
"a bunch of pooled bandwidth" ones?

> Would people have voted for the Charter Prop rule if Clubs could be created
> with no vote required?

No. And they shouldn't have voted for it if Clubs could be created with only
a 1/3 majority vote required.


Alright, could you explain to me exactly what you want Clubs to be? Your
interpretation implies that Clubs should, in general, be nothing more than
the generic 'group of people who can make proposals' sort of thing. I'd
think there would be much more potential for being interesting in something
that could actually *matter* than something that simply sits there and does
nothing. I'm imagining little subgames and such, like the Fantasy Rules
commitee of Nomic World. That sort of thing. What do you want out of Clubs?

-- 
Wonko