RE: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: Prop change

["Gavin Doig" <gmd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

> >Then Uin's proposal is not actually illegal; it's rule will simply have no
> >effect. Except it's got Chutzpah 10. So it will anyway. And r155 is broken.
> >
> >It's broken anyway, 'cause you could simply add another layer - create a
> >rule that creates a rule that creates a rule ... that discriminates based
> >on voting.
> >-- 
> >Wonko
>
> Adding layers doesn't make any difference.  The point is, even if you
> propose a rule that makes a rule that makes a rule that makes a rule
> that makes a rule that sets up a mechanism to make a rule three nweeks
> from now, it's still a change to the ruleset that the proposal is making that
> will result in votes being counted.  If it's a rule that counts votes, and it's
> made by another rule, then it's a rule that's making a rule that counts votes. 
> Causality goes backward all the way to the proposal, because the proposal
> contains the entire mechanism.
>
Well... no. That's sort of the point - actions taken by a rule made by a proosal are not actions of that proosal, by that CFJ. Exactly the same applies - actions taken by a rule created by a rule created by a proosal are not actions of the proosal. It's the same thing, just one step removed. Now, it might be possible to rewrite rule 155 such that that isn't the case, but then chutzpah 10 would just nuke it anyway.

> And one could argue that a proposal that makes a rule, ad nauseum, is an
> attempt to circumvent the rules, and thus is a violation of r10.  Which also
> has a Chutzpah of 10 and is a lower number.
>
One could argue that, but one would be silly and wrong. As explained above, the proosal wouldn't be doing anything except creating a rule. The fact that that rule then overrules another rule is irrelevant (and falls under the domain of precedence).

Rule 155 doesn't work, and given that a proosal can alter the rules, rule 155 can *never* work - any sufficiently convoluted proosal will be able to override it. (Excepting the discovery of the long-sought Immutable Rule, a beast for which we have as yet no evidence).

uin.
-- 
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