Re: spoon-discuss: Re: spoon-business: This one should work.

[Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Quoth Gavin Doig,

>> Seems to me that rule 32 states
>> 
>> "If and only if the proposal passed, its actions (such as Rule Changes and
>> other changes to the state of the game) are put into effect in the order in
>> which they are described."
>> 
>> Now, perhaps rule 293 said "Any rule which creates a gremlin which directly
>> affects players must also amend this rule to specify how that gremlin would
>> affect the player with the Idol." at the time, but 32 had a lower number,
>> and so took precedence over it.
>> 
> Didn't r293 have a higher chutzpah than r32? But even if it didn't, it doesn't
> matter...

Yes, it does...

>> Once the rules had been created, there was no conflict - 293 regulated what
>> a rule creating a Gremlin must do, but the rules were no longer 'creating'
>> Gremlins; the Gremlins had been created when the rules were.
>> 
>> So the sentence in 293 essentially did nothing, as rule 32 took precedence
>> over it and contradicted it.
>> 
> The key point that you're missing is that creating the gremlin was *not* an
> effect of the proosal, and so r32 is irrelevant. Creating the gremlin was an
> effect of the rule created by the proosal, not of the proosal itself, and so
> it had the same precedence as *that* rule, not as rule 32, and so rule 293
> took precedence over it, and the gremlin could not be created.

Perhaps r293 took precedence over the Gremlin rule. However, rule 293 claims
not that the creation of the Gremlin is invalid, but that the creation of
the rule creating the Gremlin is invalid. The actions of the rule were not
forbidden; the existence of it was.

Thus, r32 comes into play - the creation of the rule was an effect of the
proposal, but was also illegal. If r293 did indeed have higher Chutzpah,
then the rule was never created.

> Now, you could argue that immediate effects of the rule created by the proosal
> count as effects of the proosal - but you'd be wrong, as per CFJ 254.

But the creation of the rule was an effect of the proposal.

> uin.

-- 
Wonko