Re: [Spoon-business] Uh... Crap...

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 4/24/03 at 12:43 AM Daniel Lepage wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 23, 2003, at 11:43  PM, Orc In A Spacesuit wrote:
>
>>> From: Daniel Lepage <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Take a look at the current Society rule.
>>>
>>> Notice Section I in particular. Look at the previous version of it;
>>> that is, prior to Orc's "fix".
>>>
>>> Notice the thing that is in the previous version, but not in Orc's
>>> "better" version.
>>>
>>> See what's not there?
>>>
>>> It's Charters! That's right, a majority of players (Anything McGee,
>>> Baron von Skippy, bd, Orc In a Spacesuit) have voted to DO AWAY WITH
>>> SOCIETY CHARTERS!
>>>
>>> So, the following organizations have just been effectively neutered
>>> (they have names, members, and any points/RUs/BNS they had, but can
>>> do nothing with them):
>>
>> Actually, they still have their charters.  Nowhere is it mandated that
>> their charters ceased to exist.  There's nothing mandating their
>> creation now, but that doesn't mean they're gone.  In fact, there
>> never was anything mandating their creation in the last version.  So,
>> right now, all societies still have their charters, but any new one
>> that comes along will be, sadly, without.
>
>Didn't we just decide that the gamestate cannot be affected by things
>which whose existences aren't provided for in the rules, like dead
>players and whatnot? You've removed the definition of a Charter; so
>Societies can modify them, and even obey them, but nothing specifies
>what they are.
>
>Wait a minute... did I just say 'modify them'? And "nothing specifies
>what they are"?
>
>!  8-D  !
>
>I create a new Society, called "A New Exploitation!", with myself as
>the initial member.
>
>As per r18, __Permissibility of the Unprohibited__, "With the exception
>of Rule Changes whatever is not prohibited or regulated by the Ruleset
>is permitted and unregulated."
>
>The creation of Charters, or for that matter the definition of
>Charters, is no longer regulated; so I define the Charter of "A New
>Exploitation!" to be me, that is, the player known as Wonko.
>
>As per r578, societies take actions when their charters 'dictate' that
>they do. Also as per r578, societies are empowered to modify eir
>charters.
>
>Therefore, I dictate that "A New Exploitation!" modifies its charter by
>increasing the Charm of its charter by 50.
>
>As per r154, I Win.
>
>As per r0, I recognize a State of Emergency.

Didn't we just decide that the gamestate cannot be affected by things which whose existences aren't provided for in the rules, like charters and whatnot?  Thanks to Mr. in a Spacesuit's most recent society screw, while a society can manipulate some object called a charter, it doesn't say that such an object as a charter actually exists.  Therefore, you can't create a society that includes a charter, since the initual state of such an object isn't defined.

There do, however, exist some charters ("legacy" charters, I suppose).  Since the rules say societies can modify their charters, it means they can modify said charters if said charters exist.

Rule 18 doesn't apply in this case, because r578 says charters can be manipulated; that means charters are regulated.  There's just no provision for their creation.

M-Tek, fortunately, doesn't have that problem...

I modify M-Tek's charter by adding 100 to the charter's charm, and the following text: "If this charter ever possesses charm, it evenly distributes it among M-Tek's members."

...A nod to Wonko for eir idea.

*We* win.

I now declare a state of emergency.

						Glotmorf

-----
The Ivory Mini-Tower: a cyber-anthropologist's blog
http://ix.1sound.com/ivoryminitower

_______________________________________________
spoon-business mailing list
spoon-business@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-business