Orc In A Spacesuit on 12 Apr 2003 04:21:01 -0000


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Re: [Spoon-business] NWEEK 38 RESULTS (finally) 

From: "David E. Smith" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Regular Recognizer stuff:
Orc's strip-mining finishes. Since e actually ran out of cash before all eir squares were mined, I'm just taking 'em in the order they were 
listed...

(9,5) is mined  5 times. It ends at Elevation -5, Gravel, +132 RUs.
(10,8) is mined 4 times, ending elevation -4, Water, +56 RUs.
(11,8) is mined 4 times, ending elevation -4, Earth, +47 RUs.
(12,8) is mined 2 times, ending elevation -2, Gravel, +23 RUs.
Orc thus earns a total of 258 RUs, but fails to create an effective
anti-Barney trench.


Sorry, Glotmorf, I tried.  Really, I did. :p
I assume that Dave rolled the die for each time I Mined to see if I got an item or not, and that I got nothing. However, as there is no mention of this either way, I would like to make sure that this is the case, and if not, correct it. 



Wonko attempts to alter the INH Charter. If e'll let me know when that
takes effect, that'd be swell.


It did and does.  Take effect that is.  Even if I'm not Wonko.


Proposal 1422/3 (Unlikely Icecapades) (Orc In a Spacesuit):
AFF: Baron von Skippy (10), bd, Orc In a Spacesuit
ABS: Anything McGee
SHL: Glotmorf, Iain, Wonko
Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-0-1-3). Measure fails. Measure is shelved.
Created p1446/0.

*digs through email*
Ah, here we go:

Proposal 1422/3: Unlikely Icecapades (Orc In a Spacesuit)
Shelve. I think the use of the word "possessed" in this proposal is meaningless or redundant, as there doesn't appear to be a definition in the rules for it except as implied: "among the items one is carrying". Did the proposer perhaps mean "owned"?
No, I did not. I'll refer you to Rule 301.B.3. The reason I >use "possessed or carried" rather than just a single term is that some >places the rules use "possessed", other places they use "carried".
As such, I see no problem with the proposal as it stands. I leave it unchanged for now. 


Proposal 1427/0 (Forfeiture: New and Improved!) (Orc In a Spacesuit):
AFF: Anything McGee, bd, Orc In a Spacesuit
NEG: Baron von Skippy
SHL: Glotmorf, Iain, Wonko
Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-1-0-3). Measure fails. Measure is shelved.
Created p1449/0.
The reason that Glotmorf called for shelving was that it isn't clear whether or not there is any "stat restoring" upong an old player rejoining. This problem was already in there, and wasn't created by my proposal, but I can include it anyway.
In my current proposal __Forfeiture: New and Improved!__, add the following sentence: "Any player who becomes a "former player" loses any stats, attributes, items, or other things granted by this game upon ceasing to be a player, and does not regain them if e becomes a player once again." 


Proposal 1433/0 (Tweaking Justice) (Orc In a Spacesuit):
AFF: Anything McGee, bd, Orc In a Spacesuit
SHL: Baron von Skippy, Glotmorf, Iain, Wonko
Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (3-0-0-4). Measure fails. Measure is shelved.
Created p1451/0.
As far as I know, BvS made no statement as to why he wanted this shelved; this leaves Glotmorf's opinions. From what he said, and my response:
Shelve. I think the last change is unnecessary. The first change is interesting. The second change makes me think we should swap in alternate Upper House members should an appellate judge quit or go on leave in the middle of a judgment.
I personally agree that the last change is unnecessary. However, it doesn't hurt anything, and I think Dave prefers that things be worded this way.
Your suggested revising of the second change would make that rule all complicated.
In any case, I see none of what you said to be worthy of shelving this proposal. Something that is strictly unnecessary but makes things even slightly more agreeable to Dave certainly isn't something that should cause a good effect of a prop to not pass. And if you want new appelate judges shuffled in to replace old ones, make a proposal to that effect; this proposal is leaving that matter untouched. 

I leave the shelved proposal unchanged for now.


Proposal 1434/0 (You gotta do things yourself) (Orc In a Spacesuit):
AFF: bd, Orc In a Spacesuit
NEG: Baron von Skippy
ABS: Anything McGee
ODD: Glotmorf, Iain, Wonko
Counts (Y/N/A/S) : (2-1-1-0). Measure fails. Measure is shelved.
Multivotes or Oddvotes counted (3). Adjust totals manually.
(The Oddvote Triumverate votes No on parts 1 and 3, and Shelve on part 2. Thus, parts 1 and 3 fail outright, and part 2 is shelved as a new prop.) 
Created p1452/0.


Again, BvS made no official statement, leaving only Glotmorf's statements.
Item 1: No. This won't stop the phenomenon you're trying to stop; it'll just make it more work for everyone involved.
You say I am trying to stop something. I'm not trying to stop anything other than players getting credit for being active when they're not. I really fail to see how I'm failing in that.
Item 2: Shelve. Take out the "proxy" stuff. That has genuine value, especially if you're touting automation scripts as an alternative to society membership requirements.
If a player wants to give a proxy to a society, e can do it manually; or, e can set eir script to "If an M-Tek position is issued for any proposal on a current ballot, and I have not yet voted on that proposal, I cast a vote on that proposal identical to the M-Tek position on that proposal." Anything more than that would be giving societies power I don't think they should have.
Item 3: No. With privilege comes responsibility. This takes away any requirement that a member of society obey its rules or be responsible for anything.
Right now, a member doesn't have to obey the rules or be responsible for anything, so what you say does not make sense. At all. Any member can leave rather than obeying any rule or upholding any responsibility. And if this passes, a society can kick out a member who breaks a rule or fails a responsibility, or inflict other punishment it might be capable of (removal of position, denial of salary...). 
Either way, net result is
Member Disobeys -> Member no longer a Member.

I change proposal 1452 to about what it was in fullness before:
{{
In Rule 154, __Dimensions__, section B.3 Activity, after "if e voted on that nweek's Ballot", add ", and at least one of those votes was not the result of a proxy held by another player or the result of an automation script"
Add the following paragraph after the first in Rule 1247, __Automation Scripts__: "A player may not issue a proxy, become Off Leave, or, if e is On Leave, perform any action that requires em being Off Leave as a result of an Automation Script."
[[Dave: Note that according to the rules as they are, you can disallow any change to an automation script. If you don't like it, don't allow it. Heck, disallow all of them if you want.]] 

In Rule 578, __Societies__:
{{
Change section I. to:
{{
I. Definition
A society is a group of entities, who are called the Members of that society. An entity becomes a member of a soceity when e creates that society or is accepted as a new member by that society. An entity may not be accepted by a society unless e has stated e desires to become a member of that society, and has not since declared that e does not. 
}}
In section II, change the first restriction to, "A society does not take actions unless its charter or a rule dictates it does." 

Change section VIII to:
{{
VIII. Limits and Termination
No society can force or directly cause its members to do anything, unless otherwise explicitly stated by the rules. Any member of a society may leave it at any time, ceasing to be a member of that society. If a society has no members, it disbands itself. 
}}
}}

Orc in a Spacesuit

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