Orc In A Spacesuit on 3 May 2003 02:13:01 -0000


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[Nomicmarket] Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Thermo] (unknown) 

From: Doctor Ducker <drduck@xxxxxxx>
A lot of this is what I was thinking the Home Nomic sections of the Market Nomic's ruleset were for, and why I thought that each individual Nomic needed a set of rules for "prepping" eir things for introduction into the Market. 

Let me give an example sequence:

1) I declare that I'm going to market.
2) The Thermo ruleset, says that all my Thermo::Player possessions then enter a state known as 
"At the Market".  [These rules need to be defined]
3) The Thermo specific sub-ruleset of the Market examines my Thermo::Player's possessions, and establishes appropriate objects in the possession of my Market::Trader self. [These rules also 
need to be defined]
4) My Market:Trader self trades a Coin for, say, 1,000 BNS.
5) I declare that I'm leaving the Market.
6) The Thermo ruleset examines my Market::Trader's possessions, compares that with what my Thermo::Player "At the Market" possesions are, and then creates and destroys things within Thermo as appropriate. [More rules needing to be defined] 

The equivalent set of actions could happen for a B Nomic Player.
Essentially both games (a home Nomic, and the Market) need some sort of synchronization rules. You're message passing somewhat does this, but it isn't going to function very well between our two Nomics at present, as, as far as I understand things, none of B's objects can exist within Thermo, and what few object types Thermo has might not be creatable within B (I don't know for sure), thus no reason to trade. Thus what we need is a medium for exchange, the problem as I see it is figuring this out.
I think that we're envisioning the Market in two very different ways. You're seeing it as a place that people can sent their items off to removing them from their home game for a bit, then come back with a different set. I see it as a connection point, and once a connection is made from both sides, each Nomic instantly destroys/creates. But until the actual giving takes place, the item fully exists and functions in its home Nomic.
As for compatability, in Thermo you could set your rules up to be something like this:
When someone tries to give a Thing away, Thermo sends an event, with the object having the Class of what the Thing is in Thermo (Coin, Kudo, Rule, etc), and a Text if it its a rule or proposal. And a Description if it's a Hot Potato. Should the transaction complete, that Thing is then destroyed in Thermo.
The very simplist way to receive _any_ object would be to simply, upon transaction completion, ignore any of the specifics of the object as sent from the Market, and simply create a Coin in the receiver's possession.
From that base, you could expand, saying that the receiver gets a Coin,
unless the Class of the object sent from the Market is a Kudo, in which case a Kudu is created in eir possession instead. And any other properties sent by the Market, such as Color of the Kudo, can be simply ignored. This example is assuming that Kudos still are a part of the Thermo rules.
You can keep expanding, making a provision where received Hot Potatoes result in Hot Potatoes being created in the receiver's possession, with any Description sent by the Market. And the do same for Rules and Proposals.
To keep expanding on this, you could change the rule that says "Rules, players, proposals, offices, coins, and The Bank are things." Change it up completly, so that you don't have to list every possibility, and instead have Things come into existance as specified by the ruleset without the list. Maybe require everything to have a Type (like Coin or Office or whatever), so everything still makes sense. That way, players could have anything, but would have to get rules that make those Things useful, otherwise they'll just be fluff.
Finally, you could have Things get the Properties and Attributes described in the Event from the Market.
A lot of stuff would be completly useless at first. But rules for specific items can be made, and rules for groups of items could be made. Maybe you could make a special subset of rules for anything with the Attribute "Grid Object", which most of the stuff from B will have.
Finally, another consideration for Thermo: I think it would be cool if the Conservation of Mass rule applied to trades, where you have to destroy something (either via trading something off, or otherwise) in order to receive something.
I'm considering submitting this as a Registration prop, as Craig suggested. But I'm not sure I will, you guys go ahead and see what you can do, don't wait on me. 

Orc in a Spacesuit

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