Re: [s-d] [s-b] Murphy's refresh proto v1.2

[Justin Ahmann <quesmarktion@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I had been hoping to use that MoQ loophole; the original plan, however, was to spam the system with Consultations nobody wanted to answer and keep reassigning them until I could.  It was later that I realized I could dominate the game through invalidities.

Codae

P.S. I (as Ambassador) am going to describe the State of Emergency on the wiki.


----- Original Message ----
From: Jamie Dallaire <bad.leprechaun@xxxxxxxxx>
To: spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:46:55 PM
Subject: Re: [s-d] [s-b] Murphy's refresh proto v1.2

On Dec 10, 2007 8:19 PM, Ed Murphy <emurphy42@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> /*
> I continue to feel that ratifying past SOEs and replacing Panic
> Buttons with direct player states are the most important issues
> at hand.  I would vote for the Button-independent parts of comex's
> first proto if they were submitted as a regular proposal, and for
> his second proto if the "Tweaks should only be used to X" comment
> were made an explicit part of the rule.


I think these are only part of the solution to our problems. If I may, I do
not see how either last nweek's emergency or the panic buttons, or panic
itself, could have caused the current emergency in any more than a proximate
way.

To me, the main issue to fix is a part of the rules that was brought about
by the refresh proposal from last nweek, i.e. the ability to declare game
actions invalid with relative impunity. I think the emergency came about as
follows:

-nweek 134 is about to end, and I attempt some rulekeeper tomfoolery to get
Rule 1-1 repealed.
-nweek 134 ends, and the rule is repealed, but Wooble (MoQ) declares my
actions that led to its repeal invalid, meaning it never was repealed.
-Wooble and I get into a bit of a tiff, where he ZOTs my consultations
regarding validity.
-People begin objecting and usurping all over the place.
-Chaos ensues.
-Wooble leaves the ministry of questions.
-I take the ministry of questions, and declare wooble's zotting of my
consultations invalid, thus bringing these consultations back from the dead
and selecting a priest.
-0x44 gets involved and declares my taking of the ministry invalid.
Therefore I never took it and never assigned consultations to anyone, and
0x44 takes the ministry.
-I do the very same thing back to 0x44.
-More chaos, and it's been ongoing.
-We are in a vicious circle.

Basically, as long as the current ruleset stands, we are in a situation
where the MoQ can declare anyone else's actions invalid with impunity, and
can himself act with impunity as long as he has a co-conspirator, EXCEPT if
his takeover of the ministry is declared invalid, in which case he no longer
controls zotting and priest assignation. A squabble like this could go on
forever with declarations of invalidity left and right and basically nothing
really happening to the gamestate.

In general, the invalid actions mechanism seems deeply flawed, even though
it looked fine to me and I guess most people (maybe not Wooble ;-)) when it
was initially voted in.

That 100% needs to be addressed in a refresh proposal, or we will end up
sinking right back into an emergency.

Billy Pilgrim
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