Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Reality Corrected

[Zarpint Jeremy Cook <mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx>]

But that's not what's happening here. A claims it contains B, and B claims
it contains A. I take it those who believe in Reality support Wonko's claim
that he controls B Nomic now. But those who believe in B Nomic, and not
Reality, will think Reality is just a society with a Charter overruled by
B Nomic's ruleset. This is so interesting, because from Reality's point of
view, nothing we say matters: we're just one little game in it. And how could
we convince them, or they convince us?

Raymond Smullyan thought of a situation where twelve hours of your day were
spent in world A, and then you went to sleep and spent twelve hours in B,
and then you went to sleep and seemed back in A, and so on. How could world A
convince you world B wasn't real, or vice versa?

Or like two governments both claiming to hold sole authority over your life,
and claiming the other was criminal. Whatever you do, you get condemned to
death.

Zarpint


On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Glotmorf wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2004 at 23:25, Daniel Lepage wrote:
>
> > On Jan 31, 2004, at 11:20 PM, Zarpint Jeremy Cook wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My question for Bob: Is the Nomic Game contained within Reality the
> > > same
> > > game as the one we're playing, or just an identical copy with the same
> > > name?
> >
> > It's the same, of course.
> >
> > > If the first, they both claim to contain the other, and since the
> > > Reality
> > > charter was posted in B Nomic, B Nomic's rules take precedence, and
> > > B Nomic is not part of Reality. But we knew that anyway.
> >
> > Nothing in the Statutes says that B Nomic's rules can take
> > precedence... and B Nomic never says it's not part of the Club anyway.
>
> R578.II: "Societies may only take actions which the rules
> permit them to."  The rules, having established mechanisms for
> change and self-regulation, don't permit a society to have
> control over that.
>
> Also, from r578.V: "The Administrator may choose to refuse any change
> to a Charter (other than one that removes all contents of it) or any Auto
> Action for any reason, including but not limited to it causing confusion, it
> putting an undue burden on the Administrator, it breaking the game, it
> causing a paradox or unknown state of the game, or it having unintended
> consequences."
>
> Offhand, I'd say A containing B containing A qualifies as a paradox, it being
> subject to Wonko's whims constitutes breaking the game (hey, you couldn't
> accept ME as a beneavolent tyrant), and I don't indend to tolerate the
> consequence of Wonko absorbing B Nomic bloblike into an entity under eir
> own control.  And, yes, I'd say the creation of a charter constitutes a change,
> since it's going from nonexistent to existent.
>
> Now...what I might actually tolerate is the idea that Reality contains a full
> working model of B Nomic, to which we can make proto-changes before
> introducing them to the full game.  So, yeah, the current B Nomic ruleset
> might count as an initial state of the B Nomic subgame of reality, but not the
> actual game.
>
> Okay, Wonko...You can say "February Fool!" now.
>
> 						Glotmorf
>
> -----
> The Ivory Mini-Tower: a blog study in Social Technology.
> http://www.nomic.net/~dwhytock/imt
>
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-- 
Zarpint            "All thy toiling only breeds new dreams, new dreams;
Jeremy Cook         there is no truth saving in thine own heart."
mcfoufou@xxxxxxxxx       --W.B. Yeats, The Song of the Happy Shepherd
grep -r kibo /     "Movements are the problem, not the answer to problems."
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