Daniel Lepage on 3 Aug 2003 15:07:03 -0000


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[spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] The Underground Society 


On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 02:11  PM, Glotmorf wrote:
Okay, I should say this upfront...The beginning is a combination of dogma and bitch session, so those of you who only have interest in the actual actions contained herein should perhaps scroll down to the line that reads, "I create the following society and charter:" 

Having said that...
First of all, I understand where SkArcher is coming from. It can be/has been hard as hell to find rules having to do with certain things in a ruleset ordered solely numerically. Keywords help, yes, and certain other sorts of indexing can be done, but our present administrator has made it clear that, for him, "less is more" is an important concept in administrative workload. And my summer classes only ended yesterday, so if I'm gonna be talking about coding that needs doing, I should probably only be talking about coding I'm prepared to do.
Anyway. SkArcher wants to control unsightly rule sprawl, which results in, among other things, cleanup proposals for nweeks after the repeal of a given rule. I appreciate that. At the same time, though, it makes the Subgame rule a chokepoint: things that want to be subgames will have to conform to the subgame rule, and things that people will want applied to all subgames will have to be done to the subgame rule. I think it's useful to have something called a subgame, so that anyone who wants to can say, "I want to create a subgame" and everyone knows what he's talking about. But I'm not sure that we should define a subgame in terms of restrictions as much as common elements.
Now, Wonko is coming from a different direction with his definition of environments and locations. He's trying to prevent some of the mess we had with the grid, when we had rules that referred to "locations" but clearly meant something different by "location". What he's providing is a resource to be drawn on: create an "environment", fill it with "locations", and everyone will know what's meant by that.
I'm all for the creation of resource rules, things that people can draw on and piggyback on in order to create bigger and better things. My original society rule included what I called "standard methods" for things like accepting new members or making society proposals, methods that were recognized by the rules and could be used in societies or not as the creator of the society preferred. Someone insisted on their removal, though, since they were "too restrictive"; silly me, I thought I was providing options.
The only thing that worries me about Wonko's work is that it's by necessity incomplete, and therefore subject to further refinement and enhancement, and therefore I'm not sure if I'm ready to build a game from it. Plus, since it's a plug-in module, I don't know where it will come in with regards to the Subgame rule. After all, unless someone is going to cut-and-paste it into every subgame declaration, it'll be an external rule. And once a subgame is created that employs it, it'll be used solely for that one subgame until someone creates another one, and thus violate the subgame rule... 

So, screw it.
I'm gonna do something short-term, that doesn't involve the subgame rule, the environment proto-rule or the administrator. Maybe I'll make it fit later, but it just seems easier and less dogmatic this > way.
This is a game my son and I thought up. Criticism and suggestions are welcome. 

I create the following society:

{{ __The Underground Society__
The member of longest duration in this society is known as the Moderator. The Moderator can direct this society to take any action e chooses, and can change this society's charter at will. Players of the game that contains this society ("The Main Game") can request to join this society, and will become members upon the approval of the Moderator.
This society operates a game called Tunnelers. Members of this society are permitted to play in Tunnelers, subject to its rules. The Moderator will maintain a publicly viewable list of playing members.
The Moderator welcomes suggestions for the rules to Tunnelers, and will implement them at eir choosing. The Moderator has the last word on the interpretation of any of Tunnelers' rules. 

Rules for Tunnelers:

1. Objective

The objective of the game is to be the last surviving mole.

2. Components
The components of Tunnelers are a board, a deck of cards, and a mole for each player. 

2.1. The Board
The board is an 8x8 square grid of locations, labelled a-h horizontally and 1-8 vertically. Locations can be either tunneled or un-tunneled. If a tunneled square is not occupied for four turns, the square becomes un-tunneled. [[ The tunnels aren't terribly stable, and will collapse over time if they aren't shored up by whoever is passing through. ]] Locations on the board are considered adjacent if they share a horizontal or vertical side. 

2.2 The Cards
The deck of cards has 60 cards, each of which has one of the following symbols on its face: a circle (O), a triangle (T), a square (Q), a star (S) and an X (X). The deck contains twelve of each card. 

2.3. Moles
Each player in the game controls a mole. Each mole has the following initial stats: 

1 maximum attack strength
0 maximum defense strength
2 maximum movement
5 maximum health
Stats can change during the game as a result of combat or cards played. If a player temporarily changes eir own mole's stat, the change is removed at the beginning of eir next turn. If a player temporarily changes another player's mole's stat, the change is removed at the end of the other player's next turn. 

3. Play
The game is played in turns, rotating among players. During a player's turn, e can, depending on eir available stats and cards, do any combination of the following: move; play cards; initiate combat. 

3.1. Movement
Moles move using their movement stat. It costs 1 movement point for a mole to enter a tunneled square, and 2 movement points to enter an un-tunneled square (tunneling it in the process). A mole cannot move off the edge of the board or enter a square occupied by another mole.
A mole can be moved however many squares eir available movement points permit. If a mole does not have sufficient movement points to enter a square, e does not enter the square. A mole's movement points are set to eir movement stat at the beginning of the player's turn, plus or minus the effects of cards played on the mole. 

3.2. Playing Cards
At the beginning of eir turn, a player draws cards from the deck to bring eir hand total to 5. If there are insufficient cards in the deck for this, the deck and the set of discarded cards are randomized and form a new deck.
During eir turn e can play certain combinations of cards, discarding them in the process, to generate certain effects: 

OO    - temporarily raise own mole's health points by 1; or
restore own mole's health points by 1, not to exceed maximum health
What does 'temporarily' mean? Until the end of the turn? Until the beginning of that Mole's next turn?
Also, if OO can restore a mole's health by 1, why would you ever want it to temporarily restore a mole's health by 1? 


OOOO  - raise own mole's maximum health by 1
TT    - temporarily raise own mole's attack by 1; or
        temporarily lower adjacent mole's attack by 1
TTTT  - raise own mole's maximum attack by 1
QQ    - temporarily raise own mole's defense by 1; or
        temporarily lower adjacent mole's defense by 1
QQQQ  - raise own mole's maximum defense by 1
SS    - temporarily raise own mole's movement by 1; or
        temporarily lower adjacent mole's movement by 1
SSSS  - raise own mole's maximum movement by 1
XO    - teleport to a location 2 squares away
XOT   - teleport to a location 3 squares away
XOTQ  - teleport to a location 4 squares away
XOTQS - teleport to a location 5 squares away
If a mole is teleported to an un-tunneled square, the square becomes tunneled and the mole loses one health point. If a mole attempts to teleport to a square occupied by another mole, both moles lose one health point and the teleport fails. 

3.3. Combat
If a mole is or becomes adjacent to another mole during its turn, the mole can attack the other mole if its player has at least one card.
To attack the other mole, the player informs the Moderator what 1 or 2 cards e will use. The defending mole's player tells the Moderator what 1 card e will use. The cards are revealed and compared; if any of the attacker's cards match the defender's card, the attack is successful. If the defender has no cards to play, or chooses not to play a card, the attack is automatically successful. Cards used in attack and defense are discarded.
A successful attack lowers the defender's health points by the attacker's attack stat minus the defender's defense stat. If the defender's defense stat is greater than or equal to the attacker's attack stat, the attack does no damage.
If the defender's health points are reduced to zero or less, the mole is dead, and is removed from the board. 

4. Turn Procedure
Players take turns in order by the player list maintained by the Moderator. A player takes eir turn by privately telling the Moderator what sets of cards e wants to play and/or what squares e wants eir more to attempt to enter. 

'eir more' -> 'eir mole' (Oh, Jelusarem...)
The Moderator privately responds with the results of movement. If the mole encountered anything unexpected, its movement stops at that point and the player is asked what e wants to do. The Moderator and player continue dialogue until the player does not wish to take any more actions, the player is out of cards or movememt points, or the player's mole is dead.
At the end of a player's turn, the Moderator tells all players of generally-known events -- a player's mole is dead, sounds of fighting can be heard, etc. 

Does the Moderator tell everyone who's turn it is?
And what happens if a player goes On Leave or something? Does the game simply pause until e gets back/gets garbage collected? 


5. Joining a Game
Members of this society may pay four points to the society to become a player in a game of Tunnelers. If a game is running at that time, the player's mole is placed on the board at the Moderator's discretion, the player receives five cards from the deck, and the player's name is added to the player list just after the last player to have completed a turn. If a game is not running, the player's mole is placed randomly on the board, and the player's name is added to the end of the player list.
This means that a member of the society can pay four points even if they're already playing in order to relocate eir mole, gain five cards, and get another entry on the turn list.
Also, how can you guarantee that the game will ever end if dead players can come back for 4 points? Or is that intentional? 


The game cannot have more than 10 players at a time.

6. Leaving a Game
If a player's mole is killed, eir cards are discarded, eir mole is removed from the board, two points are paid from the society to the player whose mole did the killing, and one point is paid from the society to the Moderator. If only one mole is left on the board after this, half the society's points are paid to the remaining player, and half are paid to the Moderator.
Even with the change you added earlier today, this still isn't a lot of points for winning - the society gains 4 points when somebody joins, and loses 3 when they get killed; so the winner basically earns one point for everyone who died. Which, if you can't have more than 10 players, shouldn't be more than 10 points.
If the Moderator leaves the society, the game ends and the society's points are evenly distributed among the remaining members.
You make no mention of what happens if a Player leaves the society. I would assume it's the same as if eir Mole was killed; but then there's no player you can point to as having done the killing. 


7. Starting a Game
At the beginning of a game, the player list is randomized and each player receives five cards. 

}}


Overall, I like this. Admission request pending.

--
Wonko

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