Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Veni, Vidi, Vacancy

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 5/4/03 at 11:25 PM Daniel Lepage wrote:

>Ah, but what you do not realize is that penguins are irrelevant to the
>issue at hand. I submit to the players that the Baron is not, and has
>never been, a penguin. E is, however, a Toad.
>
>I cite r1183: On any roll from 83 to 90, a random player becomes a
>Penguin, the effects of which are identical to becoming a Toad.
>
>What are the effects of becoming a Toad? The object is now a Toad.
>What are the effects of becoming a Penguin? They're identical to the
>effects of becoming a Toad; thus, an object that has become a Penguin
>is now a Toad.
>
>Thus, when the Baron became a Penguin, e in fact ended up as a Toad;
>and as nothing has change about said toadliness, e is still such now,
>Q.E.D.

Sorry, dude.  Dad the Lawyer and I got into this a couple times.

Suppose two elements under the law happen to have apparently identical properties, such that they are treated the same way under similar circumstances.  Does that mean the elements are interchangable?

No, because they are defined separately.  Therefore, even if the rules don't distinguish the effects of one from another *at this time*, the fact that the rules *could* distinguish them means they are by necessity two separate items.

The cheesier example is from programming.  Creating ints a and b, and then having a = b, does not mean a has become b; changing a doesn't change b.

Besides, by your claim that being a toad is an effect of becoming a toad, it would make the rule paradoxical.  If being a toad is an effect of becoming a toad, then having become a toad as a result of sleeping with a siren is also an effect of becoming a toad; however, a penguin did not become a penguin or a toad as a result of sleeping with a siren, so that effect at least doesn't carry over.

So either the penguin rule combined with the toad rule is paradoxical, or the fact that a penguin is defined in a separate rule regulates a penguin's existence as a penguin and not a toad.

						Glotmorf

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