Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Veni, Vidi, Vacancy

["Baron von Skippy" <baronvonskippy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

> >>Yes, I know, but note the phrase 'Unless otherwise prescribed by the
> >>rules'. Moving by Force is defined as 'moving' by the Force rule, and is
> >>therefore an exception
> >>to this rule, as this rule defers to it.
> >
> >-I think this is a debateable point. No one said the target wants to 
> move,
> >just that the mover wants it to move. Extending that, if I move myself, 
> then
> >I want to move myself but I don't care if I am moved - which of those 
> takes
> >precedence? What if I don't want to move but have to out of necessity?-
>
> You state my point yourself here; 'No one said the target wants to move,
> just that the mover wants it to move.'
>
> You are the mover of yourself here; it is your free will which is a cause 
> of your movement. When
> you 'want it to move' you cause the activation of a force power which then 
> moves yourself, thus
> the subsidiary actions are dependent on your free will. Egro, you cannot 
> legally use the force
> power to make yourself move.

-What I was actually trying to get at was that I stated both of our points 
in one situation and was asking whose side took precedence. If I move 
myself, I'm also the unwitting target of my own action, just like you would 
be if I moved you as a toad/penguin.-
> >>
> >> >Since that's the accepted definition of "movement on the Grid," and 
> since
> >> >I'm not doing that, what I'm saying is still legal.
> >>
> >>This is the base definition of movement on the grid, whose rules are
> >>superceded by rules to which
> >>it defers, which is, in effect, any rule which says otherwise.
> >
> >-No other rule says otherwise.-
>
> The rules on the force say otherwise, by using the word 'moved' to 
> categorise what happens to the
> target of the power in question. This rule therefore comes into conflict 
> with the movement
> section of r301, but r301 defers to it because r301 states that it defers 
> to any other rule that
> proscribes any form of player movement. As in this case the object is you, 
> and the rules state
> that you cannot move of your own free will, you cannot employ a force power 
> to move in this
> manner.

-Rule 301 defers to any rule which specifically contradicts it. This opens a 
whole new nearly-impossible argument for us - does the Force rule 
specifically contradict 301, or are they just not quite in agreement?-
> Essentially, because it can be used upon a toad, the Force power rule is a 
> rule which proscribes
> player movement.
>
> >>
> >> >Also, using your logic, I could escape Wonko be announcing that I want 
> to
> >> >move wherever e does - any time e moves, clearly I am then moving of 
> my
> >>own
> >> >free will, and since I can't do that, I have to get left behind or
> >>perhaps
> >> >my position is undefined, since it's not clear what is contrary to my
> >>free
> >> >will.-
> >>
> >>No, because your Free Will is not a cause of your movement.
> >
> >-In that case, I can float myself around because I'm not moving of my own
> >free will, I'm moving with some help from the Force.-
>
> As you yourself stated above, you decide where the object of your force 
> power moves to. Therefore
> your arguement is inherently flawed. Your concept of what the force is and 
> how it does it has no
> bearing upon the game.
-Okay, time to open the dictionary...

Main Entry: of
<snip>
2 a -- used as a function word to indicate origin or derivation <a man of 
noble birth> b -- used as a function word to indicate the cause, motive, or 
reason <died of flu> c : BY <plays of Shakespeare>
<snip>

So, to move /of/ one's own free will would here indicate that you move with 
Free Will as the motive force. Given that there is no other such force when 
you're walking/ running/ flying on the Grid, this means we can still do 
those. On the other hand, utilizing the Force means that, under this 
definition, you are moving of The Force, not of Free Will. And, if you want 
to say that 301 defers to everything that says it's wrong, then this clearly 
means that 301 defers in this instance to the Force rule. Penguins can fly, 
after all. Crazy penguins...-

[[BvS]]

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

_______________________________________________
spoon-discuss mailing list
spoon-discuss@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-discuss