[spoon-discuss] Be careful what you wish for

[bd <bdonlan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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Just got this on the thermo list. Perhaps we should speculate less freely? The 
goal isn't to subjugate other nomics. At least, not as far as I know.

- ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

To: thermodynomic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: "quarksbar9" <quarksbar9@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Thermo] The real reason Nomic Market was created

Citizens of Thermodynomic.  Last week I requested to join B Nomic,
but have not heard anything from them.  Now they are in a "state of
emergency" so I decided to read their April discussion archives at
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/threads.html to get better informed on the B Nomic culture.

It would appear that B Nomic isn't being up front with you Thermo
players in reference to this Nomic Market idea.  There is an obvious
ulterior motive you need to be alerted to.

In the April archives(link above) you should check out the thread
entitled "Step One on the road to Internomic II".  I have highlights
and links to those exact messages so that you can see I'm not making
this stuff up.

Baron von Skippy lays out the Internomic plan:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00134.html

[[
I'm looking at a less structured, more real-lifeish version of
InterNomic, where instead of a central Nomic controlling all,
individuals link up and interact. It's broad so that they can do all
kind of things, you see. Initially, there will be very few links, and
most of them will come from B Nomic. This is a good thing. What I'm
really going for is two unprecedented things. One, this game uniting
behind a cause. Two, the cause: B Nomic becoming a power in the land,
and, if they don't have a land for us to be a power in, us making
one. What I envision is most players joining a second game and
promoting the cause of B Nomic there. You don't have to be a full-
time player. Just join, vote some, and occasionally propose something
that will make their ruleset better compatible with ours.
]]

Delusions of grandeur maybe? Read on and judge for yourself:

[[
Everyone stands to win here, especially the people who can make the
most stuff to sell. Might I point out that we have a lot to sell?

Ambassadors will have advantages too. Especially once it's realized
that it's easiest to have B Nomic Ambassadors to other Nomics become
other Nomics' Ambassadors to B Nomic. Ambassadors will get power and
paychecks both ways.
]]

 If you continue reading through the thread you'll see that some
players of B Nomic actually discuss the Nomics they can do harm to.
Like here.
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00147.html.  And yes, they list Thermodynomic.

A player identified as bd responds to a player known as Wonko:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00163.html

[[

> You seem to think that we can force other Nomics to do what we want;
> you seem even to think that we can invade them at any time if we
> choose. But we can't. They don't need us nor our rules; if we bother
> them, they can choose to ignore us. And there's nothing we can do

about

> it. For us to declare war on a nomic would be like a Magic player
> casting a Lightning Bolt at a player in a nearby game of chess - the
> chess player doesn't care about the bolt, she just ignores it, and

the

> Bolter can't do a thing about it. Likewise, if we declare that our
> invading armies trample another Nomic's rules and beat them into the
> ground, they can simply ignore us, as we are not a part of their
> gamestate unless they allow us to be.

We can all join $smallerthanus-nomic and implement whatever proposal
we like
]]

Then Glotmorf chimes in: http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-
discuss/spoon-discuss-200304/msg00156.html

[[
We could do that now.  I know at least one Nomic out there whose
member count is lower than ours.  We could pull a LaRouche, all join
at once, and vote in whatever we please...
]]

Baron von Skippy also responds to Wonko:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00153.html

[[

>And if they don't subscribe to our Ambassador rule, how do we 'go to

war'

>with them?

- -Um... we replace their entire ruleset with "proosal proosal
proosal?" Or we masquerade as them on discussion boards that attract
hackers and declare their web page to be totally hack-proof? You
know, the usual way.-
]]

Since Thermodynomic is run through Yahoo groups, you will likely not
have to worry about hack attacks.  But this type of talk about Nomic
war is really disturbing.  Why would anyone want to ruin the fun of
other players who share their interest in playing Nomic?

Here's a response to the previous email from Wonko:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00166.html

[[
We can only nuke eir rules if we outnumber them. And that strikes me
as a bit of a cop out - there's absolutely nothing they can do short
of closing themselves to stop us. So all that happens is that we take
out
one Nomic, it restarts using its last seen ruleset but without
allowing new players, and every other Nomic gets irritated and cuts
off all relationships with us. We essentially become a group of
traveling brigands whom everyone else hates. I, for one, will not
join in such action.
]]

Wonko is the only B Nomic player taking these Nomic war hawks of B
Nomic to task.  Don't you think that's sad?

Now we see Baron von Skippy discuss the precedence of internomic war:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00155.html

[[
- -The Nomic Wiki has the records of two inter-nomic wars already.
Neither needed Ambassadors. Agora simply trampled two Nomics which
pissed it off. I mean, really. A war like you describe is like two
children shooting imaginary guns at each other. "Bang!" "You missed!"
I'm talking about an all-out grapple to the death.-
]]

Grapple to the death?  Again, why would anyone want to ruin the fun
of other Nomic players.  This is shameless.

If you continue reading the other messages in this thread you will
see reports of active attempts to join other Nomics.

Here's Baron von Skippy responding to bd(bdolan88):
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00175.html

[[

>How about adding Emissaries to the Ambassador rule? They'd be

required to

>be
>in at least one other nomic, and would be paid to 'introduce' new

rules

>there
>for preparation for our *checks thesaurus*
>dominat^H^H^H^Htakeove^H^H^H^H^Hcoup^H^H^H^Hinteractions with them...

- -Well, that's what Ambassadors /are./ They start as Ambassadors on
one end and strange newbies who keep blathering on about another
Nomic on the other, until both ends take them as Ambassadors.-
]]

The plan is clear.  There are a good number of B Nomic players who
want other Nomics to conform to the B Nomic ruleset or else they will
destroy them.

More from Baron van Skippy:
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/archives/spoon-discuss/spoon-discuss-
200304/msg00176.html

[[
- -So we keep joining and joining. They can't block (a) player names,
(b) e-mail addresses, or (c) B Nomic players (if they block B Nomic
players, we either add the ' to our name anyway or we just lie about
it), and eventually their people will quit out of frustration. Or
maybe they'll lock out all new players, in which case they stagnate.
People get bored fast, you know. If we can keep something up longer
than them, they might give in. What we need first is a solid ally.
Another Nomic we can work with and rely upon to join with us in a
mutually beneficial relationship, and who can donate people to the
cause of breaking other Nomics.
]]

Breaking other Nomics?  What a bunch of jerks.

Since Thermodynomic appears so gung-ho about this Nomic Market thing,
maybe they'll select you as this "solid ally".  Does Thermodynomic
wish to be a party to "breaking other Nomics" with B Nomic?

This whole mess is pretty damn unethical if you ask me and I'll be
alerting every Nomic they listed in this thread.  Plus I will never
join B Nomic as long as these bunch of jerks rule the roost.

sam nichols



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- -- 
bd
BOFH excuse #140:

LBNC (luser brain not connected)
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