Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] Self-reference

[Glotmorf <nomicmorf@xxxxxxxxx>]

--- Daniel Lepage <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 11:10  PM, Adam Hill
> wrote:
> 
> > I propose:
> >
> > {{__CRC Ban, Part II__
> >
> > Repeal Rule 12 [[Self-Reference and
> Self-Application in Rules]].  
> > [[This Rule seems to contradict Rule 1299 (CRC
> Ban).]]
> > }}
> 
> Repeal rule 1299, not 12. 12 is kind of meaningless,
> as it doesn't 
> actually say anything beyond clarifying what's
> already implied, but it 
> at least does some good; r1299 is completely
> meaningless, as there are 
> many easy ways to get around it (e.g., having the
> rule repeal itself, 
> deactivating the rule, etc.). All 1299 does is
> encourage bad 
> rule-coding style.

Rule 12:

Rule Changes that affect Rules needed to allow or
apply Rule Changes are permissible. Even Rule Changes
that amend or repeal their own authority are
permissible. No Rule Change is impermissible solely on
account of its self-reference or self-application.

Rule 1299:

A proposal cannot both create and repeal a particular
rule, or both enact and repeal a particular rule
change.

These rules are not in conflict.  Rule 12 talks about
rule changes that (somehow) affect themselves; the
only example I can think of offhand is, "Unless this
sentence contains 83 words, add a comma to the end of
Rule 6."  Rule 1299 talks, not about a rule change
that monitors or changes itself, but one that
implements a change and then unimplements it within
the same proposal.  I introduced r1299 because I
thought it was cheesy that, when people wanted to do
something that was against the rules at the time,
they'd write a proposal that changed the rules, did
what would otherwise have been illegal, then changed
the rules back.

I still think that's cheesy.  But r1299 isn't in
conflict with r12.  Even if it was, it would be
considered a specific prohibition with regards to the
general permission in r12: You can have all the
self-modifying changes you want; you just can't have
THAT one.

-- Glotmorf


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