Orc In A Spacesuit on 16 Nov 2002 07:10:02 -0000


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[spoon-discuss] Re: [Bnomic-private] Scam: Bandwidth 

This reply thread has also been on the other forum; I'm fixing that now.


From: Wonko <dplepage@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Quoth Orc In A Spacesuit,
> This is to bnomic-private@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Wonko. I don't think it's still 
> a public forum.

Got it.

>> I. Definition
>> A society is a group of entities, called the Members of that society,
>> who agree to be governed by a set of publicly visible rules, called the
>> Charter of that society, and who have become members of that society in a 
>> manner prescribed by either the rules or by the society's Charter.
>
> Entity isn't really well defined in the game rules; hence my special
> definitions.  Are societies entities?

Entity is defined partially be standard english, where it refers to any
single body, being, or object, and partially by game convention, where it
generally refers to objects that take actions in and of themselves; either
would work with this prop, the classification of something as an entitiy is
a matter for the justice system, or for a definitions rule.


The problem is, right now, the definitions of some things are too loose.


>> III. Possessions
>> Societies may possess any object that a player could legally possess.
>> A
>> society may transfer any or all of its possessions to any other entity that 
>> could possess those objects, but does so only when its charter dictates
>> that
>> it does.
>> Any player may transfer a game object they possess which they could
>> legally give to another player to any society, unless a rule prohibits
>> this.
>
> I want this, but this causes lots of problems. What is the location of the 
> object?  Under the current rules, the object stays where it is, can be
> picked up, is subject to destruction, may be Tractor Beamed, etc.  Plus,
> this could allow me to teleport anything anywhere just through use of a
> society. Which is the reason for the Warehouses idea, which anyone can feel 
> free to borrow for eir own use.

Exactly the same thing happens as if the player had given the object to
another player.
Sez who? According to the rules, the object remains in the same location, and still remains fully manipulatable on the grid. And that still leaves the issue of instant object teleportation through society abuse. 


>> IV. Score
>> Each society has a Point Balance. When a society gains points, those
>> points are destroyed and the society's Point Balance increases by the
>> number
>> of points. When a society loses points, its Point Balance decreases by the 
>> amount of points lost. A society with a positive Point Balance may give
>> points up to its Point Balance to any entity which can possess points; the 
>> society lose points equal to the number given.
>
> But Societies don't have points.  So Societies won't be able to exchange
> stuff.  So b2b is out the window.

'b2b'?


Business-To-Business.  And it's still out the window.


>> If a society's Point Balance
>> is negative, it may not give points to any other entity, although other
>> entities may give points to it if the rules permit it. If a society with a >> Negative Point Balance is disbanded, its members each lose |PB|/n points, 
>> rounded up, where PB is the Point Balance of that society, and n is the
>> number of members. If a society has a negative Point Balance and only one >> member, and that member leaves the society, the member first loses points 
>> equal to the magnitude of the society's Point Balance.
>
> Leaving the last one out holding the bag.

Yes.


I don't like this.


>> VI. Charm
>> Societies possess Charm. When a society's proposal passes, its Charm
>> increases by one. When a society's proposal fails, its Charm decreases by >> one. Any society may transfer a point of Charm from itself to any player, 
>> but only as its charter dictates.
>
> Charm can be positive or negative. There's a reason I didn't do this for 
> Charm.  Just give the difference out.

Or dump it on the last one gone again. I think I'll do that.
You miss my point. Societies could keep giving out charm indefinitly, even when the society's charm goes below 0.
> Are you not wanting Corporations? I don't have a problem with them going 
> out, but are you aware you are doing this?

Actually, this draft doesn't sack corporations, because I forgot to specify
that the society thing was a replacement for the current version, but I
don't think corporations should be here anyway. They should be defined in a
separate rule, and I plan on proposing that next nweek (along with
warehouses if you don't plan on proposing them). I first want to get a basic 
structure set up and give people some time to pick at it and find the holes
before complicated things that we don't use get put in.


Which is why I want the prop revised to adddress these issues.

Orc In A Spacesuit

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