Re: [spoon-discuss] Re: [Spoon-business] The Daily Recognizer (Tuesday morning)

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/2/02 at 10:10 PM Wonko wrote:

>Quoth Glotmorf,
>
>> On 7/2/02 at 9:42 PM Wonko wrote:
>>
>>> Quoth David E. Smith,
>>>
>>>> My official ruling on "The Junior G-Men" is essentially what I posted
>on
>>>> the -discuss list, until CFI'd otherwise. (The relevant CFI is 828,
>>>> assigned to Rob.) So far as I'm concerned, the society never existed,
>as
>>>> it never had any members.
>>>>
>>>> The same applies to "Team Wonko" (provisionally given Charter 830, and
>>> its
>>>> pseudo-proposal 831).
>>>>
>>> I submit that neither the G-Men [[Yes, I caught the three-way pun. I
>hate
>>> puns.]], the Pay-bd-Men, nor Team Wonko exist:
>>>
>>>
>>> "G.2. Creating a Society by a Player Action
>>>
>>> A Player may, no more than once per nweek, in the first five ndays of an
>>> nweek, declare a Society by stating eir intent to do so, along with the
>>> Society's Charter.
>>>
>>> The Charter must include a list of the Society's initial Members.
>Players
>>> in
>>> the list other than the Player declaring the Society must state their
>>> acceptance of membership into the Society in the same nweek as the
>>> declaration, or will be dropped from the list of initial Members.
>>>
>>> If, at the end of the nweek in which the Society was declared, a
>proposal
>>> that nweek has barred it from existing, or the Society would have no
>>> Members, the Charter is discarded and the Society does not exist."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Something is missing from the above quote [[from Rule 578/5 :
>Societies]]
>>>
>>> What's missing is the part where the society gets made.
>>>
>>> In other words, while we can declare societies, they will never
>actually be
>>> created.
>>>
>>> So none of the player-action societies ever will exist.
>>
>> In that case, our votes, grid movements and gremlin-related actions don't
>> exist either, since all we do is declare them on the business forum.
>Hell,
>> nothing we do in the game exists, since we're not taking actual,
>physical,
>> real-world action except for declaring our actions on the public forum.
>In
>> that context, our game actions have all the validity of the calvinball
>crap.
>>
>> Yer nitpicking, guy.
>
>The difference is that the rules permit us to vote, make grid movements,
>etc. The rule quoted above only permits us to 'declare societies'. It does
>not equate declaring a society with creating a society - in fact, the later
>wording of the rule implies that declaring a society often will not create
>it. Creating a Society by a non-proposal action, therefore, is banned by
>the
>default case, and by the regulation clause, as the creating of societies is
>definitely regulated by the above quoted rule.

Tsk.

Rule 578 subsection G.2 is, in case you haven't noticed, a subsection of Rule 578 subsection G.  Subsection G is entitled, "Creating a Society".  The first paragraph of subsection G states that societies may be created by a proposal or a player action.  The rest of subsection G consists of two sub-subsections, one entitled, "Creating a Society with a Proposal", and the other entitled, "Creating a Society by a Player Action."  It clearly indicates that the act of creating a society via a player action is performed by following the procedure stated within G.2.

To say otherwise is to take the individual sentences of r578 sG.2 out of the context of the rule that contains them, which results in sentences just as meaningless as would result from taking every sentence in the ruleset out of context.  If this is to be considered the method for determining the meaning of a rule, we might as well toss the whole game, because the entire ruleset now makes no sense.

Yer nitpicking, guy.

						Glotmorf


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