Re: [Spoon-business] NWEEK 25 BALLOT

["Glotmorf" <glotmorf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 11/6/02 at 6:00 PM David E. Smith wrote:

>The following measures are on the ballot for nweek 25:
>
>Proposal 1138/0: Chads, Hanging and Otherwise (The Voice)

No.  The history of the game contains examples of players that repeatedly make unreasonable proposals.  In a fey mood I may respect them, but I'd rather not see the game reward them.

>Proposal 1142/0: Bandwidth Salads (Athena)

No.  Upon reflection, I don't believe in buying bandwidth.

>Proposal 1150/0: Imperial Dave (Orc In a Spacesuit)

No.  This proposal is back because it was vetoed before.  If even Dave doesn't want it, let it die.

>Proposal 1151/1: The Weirdest Speeder Upgrade You'll Ever See (Baron von
>Skippy)

Shelve.  The bit about random grid squares' elevations being raised is badly phrased.  Strictly speaking, this could include underground squares.

>Proposal 1156/2: This is to Inform You That... (M-Tek)

Yes.  This takes care of the entire "instant slavery" issue.

>Proposal 1157/0: Another Band-Aid (TM) For Societies (The Administrator)

Yes.  This allows certain temporary conditions to exist for a society's formative period.

>Proposal 1160/0: More Details, and Power to Boot (Orc In a Spacesuit)

No.  If players are on the LMJ because they should be, leave them there.  If players are on the LMJ even if they shouldn't be, then fix the rule, not just the list.

>Proposal 1167/0: Enough of It Already! (M-Tek)

Yes.  Let It be not.

>Proposal 1168/1: Reactivate the Stock Market (Athena)

No.  This reduces the stock market to roughly the same status as the casino.

>Proposal 1169/1: Valhalla (Athena)

Shelve.  I like the whole mess o' planes idea, but I don't think travel between them should be quite that easy.

>Proposal 1170/4: Societies and Corporations (Orc In a Spacesuit)

No.  This removes much of societies' existing functionality, it creates rule redundancies which can complicate future rule changes, it eliminates restrictions that prevent proposals from accidentally creating unqorkable societies, and it's otherwise unnecessary, especially given props 1156 and 1157.  Plus, I dislike how it rewrites the charters of societies the proposer doesn't own.

>Proposal 1171/2: Number Guessing (Athena)

No.  Players A and B submit numbers to the Administrator.  Players A and B exchange numbers.  Players A and B "guess" each other's numbers for a cost of 2 points.  Players A and B each get 30 points.  Ya know, we could just vote ourselves 30 points per nweek and save time...

>Proposal 1172/0: I shall call him... "Mini-Me." (Baron von Skippy)

No.  Let's do this sort of thing through proposal.

>Proposal 1173/2: Make it so (Wonko)

Shelve.  I'd rather see the holder of the Immunity Idol immune to Yoda as well.  With the bennies the thing provides, there have to be some slaps too.

>Proposal 1174/0: The Hand of The Voice (Baron von Skippy)

Yes.  Mostly harmless.

>Proposal 1175/0: Lake Caffeine (Lord Gregarian)

Yes.

>Proposal 1176/0: If It Ain't Real, Don't Wave It (Glotmorf)

Yes.  I've tried nice, I've tried serious, I've tried annoyed, and I'm still hearing about how the Uber makes all our props unnecessary.  If I'm going to have to listen to it, I'd like a chance to get paid for it.

>Proposal 1177/0: Disposing of the Idol (Wonko)

No.  Call it a weird sentimental fondness.

>Proposal 1178/0: Only When You're There (Wonko)

Shelve.  There's a reason Luigi collects interest in the same nweek that he lends.  It's comparable to a racetrack loan shark: "Soon as I give you this hundred, you owe me twenty-five more."  A player is essentially betting on getting some proposals to pass in the nweek e borrows the points.  If eir horse doesn't come in, e's in for a round of hurt.  Otherwise, I agree with the whole tying-gremlins'-activities-to-being-active thang.

>Proposal 1179/3: The lottery (bd)

No.  I agree with Wonko's point...this can be done under the existing ruleset with either Offers or societies.  Assuming societies don't get gutted by p1170.

>Proposal 1180/1: If It Ain't Broke, Don't... Oh, Never Mind (Glotmorf)

[[ Sorry, Dave...I'd like to itemize my comments. ]]

Part 1: Yes. A society's charter is what defines it.  If a society isn't defined, it shouldn't be cluttering up the gamestate.

Part 2: Yes. A society exists to have members.  If a society doesn't have members, it shouldn't be cluttering up the gamestate, unless there's a good reason for it, as defined in a rule.

Part 3: Yes. Far too many CFIs are based on players trying to exploit vagaries in the rules' wording.  The sentence in question is therefore dangerous.

Part 4: Yes. I have no idea what Orc means by "multiple simultaneous charters".  All I know is that if I'm going on leave I don't want to have to cancel membership in a society because I'm afraid of what might happen while I'm away.  P1156 would take care of this, but if p1170 actually passes it'd wipe that out.

Part 5: Yes. There have been multiple instances (the grid, for example) where the scattering of rules throughout the ruleset has resulted in inconsistencies, incompatibilities and conflicts when implemented changes weren't comprehensive.  Redundancy is good in computer hardware.  It's not good in law.

Part 6: Yes. Orc would "prefer to not deal with units right now."  That's too bad, because units exist right now, and there are rules (Speeder Upgrades) that require the existence of a society (WBE) that is capable of handling units.  Now that Wonko and I have resolved WBE to the point that it can operate, p1170 will cause it to again not operate, which means speeder upgrades will continue to not be available.

Part 7: Yes.  Orc would "prefer not to complicate things."  Yet with p1170 e is totally rewriting the Society rule, which would eliminate the safety net that prevents proposals from accidentally (or intentionally) creating inoperable societies.

Part 8: Yes.

Part 9: Yes.  The Boy Scouts collect dues.  The United Nations collects dues.  My daughter's debate team collects dues.  Under certain circumstances membership should have a price.  Societies should have the option of being able to specify those circumstances.  And I'm really looking forward to peeling back the fingernails of members to get their credit card num...Oh, wait, that can't happen, since members would be able to leave before I mandated that.  So I guess the whole "force their members to do things against their will" thang isn't really an issue.  But then, if p1156 passes and p1170 fails, it won't be an issue anyway.

In other words...I vote YES on the whole thing.  Sorry, Dave.

>Proposal 1181/1: Wonko fixes eir errors (Wonko)

Yes.

>Proposal 1182/0: Priority (The Administrator)

Ahem.  Things aren't being shaken up enough already?

I vote No.

						Glotmorf

-----
The Ivory Mini-Tower: a cyber-anthropologist's blog
http://ix1.1sound.com/ivoryminitower

_______________________________________________
spoon-business mailing list
spoon-business@xxxxxxxxx
http://lists.ellipsis.cx/mailman/listinfo/spoon-business