Re: [eia] Prussian Reinforcements June 1806

["J.J. Young" <jjy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Everyone who has spoken up so far seems to agree that supply cannot be
traced through another major power's territory without access.  So the
options for the Prussian corps remain to stay in the same area as the depot
and forage at 3- or to move on to the area N of Warsaw and pay $1 supply.

-JJY

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Helle" <jhelle@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "public list for an Empires in Arms game" <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [eia] Prussian Reinforcements June 1806


> I agree with Joel and Kyle.  It seems to me as if they meant to cover
> movement and supply together w/r/t a major power, as opposed to the way
they
> handled it regarding minors.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eia-bounces@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:eia-bounces@xxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
> Kyle H
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:03 PM
> To: public list for an Empires in Arms game
> Subject: Re: [eia] Prussian Reinforcements June 1806
>
>
>     If the rules aren't clear and a vote is called for, my vote is that it
> doesn't make sense that you can trace supply through another country's
> sovereign territory without permission (i.e. Voluntary Access).  As Joel
> pointed out, moving wagon trains that are flying the flags of another
nation
> across borders without explicit permission seems historically suspect to
me.
>     I agree that Forcible Access would be another option, but I don't
think
> we are using it.  Forcible Access is a rule that was printed in an old
copy
> of the General magazine.  I recall it being brought up at the beginning of
> one of our previous campaigns as a potential optional rule, but, if I
recall
> correctly, we decided not to include it.  Feel free to correct me if I'm
> wrong.
>
> kdh
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Uckelman" <uckelman@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "public list for an Empires in Arms game" <eia@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [eia] Prussian Reinforcements June 1806
>
>
> > Thus spake Michael Gorman:
> >> At 11:00 AM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
> >> >I had assumed that you could not trace supply through another's
> >> >territory
> >> >without access, but maybe this assumption is wrong.  I don't have time
> >> >to
> >> >look through the rules right now, but I'll get back to it this
evening.
> >> >Anybody else have an opinion ?
> >>
> >> The access rules explicitly allow supply lines to trace through
> >> uncontrolled minors, but don't say anything about major powers.  They
are
> >> explicit that you cannot move forces through a major power territory,
> >> build
> >> depots or occupy cities without permission or war, but they are silent
on
> >> tracing supply lines.  If tracing a supply line is considered a form of
> >> movement, then it would be prohibited without access.
> >>
> >> Otherwise we may run into the oddity that since Prussia and Austria are
> >> allied, they cannot be enemy forces to each other so even though
Austria
> >> is
> >> aiding Turkey in attacking Prussia, they are still friendly to Prussia
> >> officially and cannot restrict Prussia supply lines.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
> > The relevant rules are under 10.3.1, in case anyone else wants to look.
> > I'm not at home right now, so I can't check, but it would also be worth
> > looking at the access form which is on one of the cards to see if it
> > says anything about tracing supply.
> >
> > 10.3.1.1 and 10.3.1.2 contrast minors with majors on all points except
> > that tracing supply is left out of 10.3.1.2. I'd always assumed that
> > that the omission of tracing supply from 10.3.1.2 was unintentional---
> > supply chains involve a lot of wagons and detachments of troops too
> > small to be represented at the scale of EiA, but they're just as much
> > a military operation as a corps moving through or a depot being built.
> >
> > I think that Prussia could trace supply through Austria without access
> > by invoking 10.3.4 (Forcible Access), but I don't think it can be done
> > for free unless Austria consents.
> >
> > --
> > J.
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