[eia] Responses to combined movement question

["Kyle Haidet" <menexenus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

   Hi guys.  Below I have included my post to the EiH email list as well as the full text of all 4 responses.  For those who just want to skip to the conclusion, all 3 respondents agree that mine is the correct interpretation of the written rules.  However, one of them says he disagrees with the rules as written and has made a house rule to suit JJ's interpretation.  If you like, you can read for yourself.  (Heck, you could even join the Yahoo-group and reply if you want.)
   Does this settle the dispute as far as you are concerned, JJ?  If there are any future replies to this thread, I'll let you know.

kdh

---Kyle wrote:
Rule 4.11 (similar to 4.9 in EiA) reads: "Major Power Allies may declare that their Naval and Land Phases or just their Land Phases, or just their Naval Phases, will be combined for the remainder of the turn, with movement of all their forces being conducted in the order of the Major Power Ally moving last in each phase. The enables Major Power Allies to move and attack together. If desired write down combined movement declarations and reveal them simultaneously."

A friend of mine claims that this language entails that if France combines movement with other countries in the land phase, then it loses its choice of when to go.  My position is that France still retains its choice of when to go, but all allies must still go together whenever the last of them would go.

Here's an example of what I mean.  Suppose France is allied with Russia and they elect to combine movement.  My friend's position is that France no longer gets to choose when it will go in the land phase and must simply go at the same time as Russia (i.e., first).  My position is that France still chooses when to go, so if France chooses to go last, then France and Russia will both go last.

Who is right?  Any help will be appreciated.

-Kyle.


---Some guy named Jeroen wrote:

Kyle,

In the EiA rules you would be right because the
sequence in EiA clearly states that first France
chooses when he moves and then combined movement is
determined.

In EiH it is the same (look footnote 47, it gets
explained there).

Jeroen.

---Then a big-wig named Ragnar chimed in:

Hi Kyle, 

Originally I agreed with your friend: You combine during the 
political phase and France can pick France's order, not that of Fr/Ru. However, taking a closer look at (EiA) rules 7.1 and 7.1.2 and especially the order they are written in, I think that you're slightly more in the right. Reluctantly, though. 

FWIW: in my ftf games we ruled that such an advantage as you propose is simply outrageous and not allowed, basically taking your friends point of view. 

It's just one of those things..

Ragnar

---Then a guy named Bob replied to Ragnar:

??? I don't understand why you consider it outrageous. Consider the identical example, but with Russia allied with Spain rather than France. Russia can choose to combine with Spain in April (moving last), and then move independently in May (going first). Russia, in effect, gets a double move against any opponent (except a dominant France).

That is certainly intended and allowed in the Rules as Written. If Russia gains this benefit from an alliance with a puny country like Spain, why can't it benefit equally from an alliance with France?


---Finally, Ragnar responded:

Well, it depends on who was winning the game at the time it comes up. IIRC, it was France at the time, so... 

I did say that I agree with your point of view, albeit marginally, but I never tried to change the ruling. Basically we tend to go with whatever we agreed earlier, if only not to complicate matters too much.

Ragnar


---That's all so far... 
             
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